Badly played but could use some help

I played this hand atrocious. I know. Even when I was in it, I knew I was playing it bad. My read on the villain - calling station that plays crap hands. But its so hard for me to throw away AK when he's betting like this. I know this is a big leak.. and I encounter it alot - completely missed flop but such good pot odds to call.
Advice please in these situatons...

PS - Does anyone encounter this at 50NL and above? I'm thinking betting like the villain here could be some creative play at higher stakes to really fool your opponents.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($9.44)
Hero (Button) ($5.43)
SB ($5)
BB ($5)
UTG ($9.26)
UTG+1 ($10.96)
MP1 ($3.67)
MP2 ($2.77)
MP3 ($4.18)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
2 folds, MP1 raises to $0.15, 2 folds, CO calls $0.15, Hero raises to $0.75, 2 folds, MP1 calls $0.60, 1 fold

Flop: ($1.72) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.20, Hero calls $0.20

Turn: ($2.12) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

River: ($2.72) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.40, Hero folds

Total pot: $2.72 | Rake: $0.10

Hear is your read....

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

I played this hand atrocious. I know. Even when I was in it, I knew I was playing it bad. My read on the villain - calling station that plays crap hands. But its so hard for me to throw away AK when he's betting like this. I know this is a big leak.. and I encounter it alot - completely missed flop but such good pot odds to call.

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You could also have included that HERO is a calling station that doesnt play bad hands,but plays bad flops,turns and folds rivers in your read.

You got married to your cards.

Then you fold on a 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif River card.To a calling station.

But you do admit you played it bad.So what advice do you seek?

Have you actually though about this hand and analized it yourself. Or just converted it and pasted it here to be pondered over. Just to be told what you know already?

And how would you have played it differently? I played it fine preflop and I know that already.

But it's 24% to hit outs on 2 overs and I was getting more than that in pot odds. Would you have tossed AK to a small bet like that? come on. why don't you take some of your own advice and instead of talking trash, think about the hand yourself.

And of course I folded the river. I had ace high and missed my draw. I put my villain on a middle pair.

I like your raise pre-flop adn I think it tells you he has a made hand of some sort. After the flop I think you're done! He has a made hand and about best you can hope for is TPTK and who's to say his made hand isn't going to improve with one of your outs! Throw'em in and move on to a better spot.

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

I played it fine preflop and I know that already.

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What do you think your villain's preflop raising range is? You said he's a calling station. Stations don't usually raise preflop without very big hands.

If you're not using stats, how many times had you seen him raise before?

Maybe this is lame, but (as played) I think I would have called the river bet also. You're likely to lose, but for $.40 more think about the information you'll gain at showdown:

What type of hand might he raise 3x with preflop?
What type of hand might he call a serious 3 bet with preflop?
What type of hand does he do that lame betting pattern with?

I've stacked villians before just from one good note taken from a previous session. It's well worth 40 cents.

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Originally Posted by d0zer

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

I played it fine preflop and I know that already.

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What do you think your villain's preflop raising range is? You said he's a calling station. Stations don't usually raise preflop without very big hands.

If you're not using stats, how many times had you seen him raise before?

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He's a 5NL calling station, meaning he won't give up his hand no matter what. Even if it's a middle pair.. calling stations at 5NL don't raise with huge hands, they still have a big range. I put him on Kx suited Ax suited or a pocket pair.

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

He's a 5NL calling station, meaning he won't give up his hand no matter what.

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That's not what calling station means. It's slang for "loose passive". maniac loose aggressive players also won't give up their hands no matter what, but the two are different on the aggression scale.

If he's raising Kxs, Axs from MP1 then he is not a station.

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

PS - Does anyone encounter this at 50NL and above? I'm thinking betting like the villain here could be some creative play at higher stakes to really fool your opponents.

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Seen this all the way up to 200nl. You guys gotta realise, the fish dont change, just the ratio of fish change.

Its an interesting spot, and sometimes you just gotta call down to find out. For most this indicates a weak hand, however we need to decide if its a weak hand that will fold to a raise, or a weak hand that wants to get to the river cheap but will call your raise anyway (player dependant). For others its a trap/poor value. They have the nuts and bet small hoping you'll raise or call. Takes reads and sometimes to get those reads you need to pay the price. I'd have called river just to pay for the information as played. Its fine to fold AK to a small bet unimproved though, especially if you think he might have a weak pair but wont fold.

Im sorry If I offended you. Sincerely.

Your Title post read "Badly played...." , your opening comment "I played this hand atrocious" .


I posted my thoughts after spending some time looking at the hand. I would say around 10-20 minutes of my time I did think about the hand .Your extra comments that you thought "Even when I was in it, I knew I was playing it bad ".

I though you were inviting people to comment.

When I posted ,I used your own self critizising words and hoped I could provoke you to work out for yourself why what I think you already knew.

Ive offended you. I apologise again.


So I,ll back off .Im just here to learn and hopefully contribute.


Im a very much a beginner .And as my experience grows I am getting better at throwing AQ ,AJ in situations.


I agree It hard to throw AKo against a calling station.But it is only Ace high with top kicker.

Edit : you have my backing 100%. its hard to let go of AK. Folding to a .40 bet on the river though is another matter.

No worries.

INteresting to see other perspectives on this. Clues me in to how other people think about their hands. I was mostly trying to suckout because he was letting me see cards for cheap.

I think at 5NL i should just tighten it up and fold here. It was a big leak for me before to not let go of AK/AQ on a missed flop in certain situations. I can do it well enough now but still certain situations here and there.

If it is a villain you will never see again (on big poker sites) a fold is not too wrong.

But if this is someone you will encounter again and again I will rarely give up that much equity for a small bet. I want to instill fear in people and make them believe they have no fold equity- especially not with small bets. Your big preflop raise often means an overpair. Represent one- then you know you are beat if he still calls.

More important than your decisions are the implications of your decisions. Against regulars the metagame aspect sometimes becomes more important than the actual hand in play.

His betting was very small so he could very well have a weaker pair or even a weaker ace high type hand. I think in situations like this we need to weigh the benefits of raising vs calling the donk bets.

If he is a cally/wally type don't raise with air. However, you can call his bets down here and try and make a pair with your ace or king. In this situation we need to weigh the implied odds of you hitting that ace or king. If he is a calling station we can certainly squeeze value out of hitting our hand. Of course don't forget to take into account reverse implied odds, because when we do hit that ace or king against guys like this we want to get the money in when we beleive we are ahead, but sometimes he's already made the better hand.

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

And how would you have played it differently? I played it fine preflop and I know that already.

But it's 24% to hit outs on 2 overs and I was getting more than that in pot odds. Would you have tossed AK to a small bet like that? come on. why don't you take some of your own advice and instead of talking trash, think about the hand yourself.

And of course I folded the river. I had ace high and missed my draw. I put my villain on a middle pair.

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Wait so did you play the hand poorly or did you play it perfectly?

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

But it's 24% to hit outs on 2 overs and I was getting more than that in pot odds. Would you have tossed AK to a small bet like that? come on.

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You're only 12% to hit your hand on the turn, then 12% again to hit your hand on the river. So IF ALL 6 OF YOUR OUTS ARE LIVE, you made a correct call on the flop (nearly 10 to 1 pot odds and 9 to 1 odds against winning) but not the turn (about 8 to 1 pot odds and still 9 to 1 against winning). The flop actually has a bit more equity than 12%, since any heart gives the nut flush redraw.

On both the flop and turn, you were offering villain reverse implied odds. You can't just say I'm x% to win by the river, then call any small bets on the flop and turn. You have to guess how much you're going to have to call to SEE the river, much more so the showdown.

I think BJ's getting at this: how sure are we that either or the A or the K is good here?

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

why don't you take some of your own advice and instead of talking trash, think about the hand yourself.

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Stop picking fights, imo, if you don't like being flamed.

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Originally Posted by Robb

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Originally Posted by Revolver123

But it's 24% to hit outs on 2 overs and I was getting more than that in pot odds. Would you have tossed AK to a small bet like that? come on.

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You're only 12% to hit your hand on the turn, then 12% again to hit your hand on the river. So IF ALL 6 OF YOUR OUTS ARE LIVE, you made a correct call on the flop (nearly 10 to 1 pot odds and 9 to 1 odds against winning) but not the turn (about 8 to 1 pot odds and still 9 to 1 against winning). The flop actually has a bit more equity than 12%, since any heart gives the nut flush redraw.

On both the flop and turn, you were offering villain reverse implied odds. You can't just say I'm x% to win by the river, then call any small bets on the flop and turn. You have to guess how much you're going to have to call to SEE the river, much more so the showdown.

I think BJ's getting at this: how sure are we that either or the A or the K is good here?

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Thanks, this reply was very helpful. I think I understand better now how to play these spots.