Made the mistake of betting this river. Call shove?

On the flop I'm not too sure where I am at. After getting called hands like draws and weaker Kings (Unless someone limped AK) and any connector type hand involving an 8, plus A8 sound like good candidates. I think generally I would be getting raised on the turn here against trips to protect against the FD (ok probably not since that's just how I think), but opponent is unknown so I am unclear whether or not he/she would slowplay top pair/trips/FD or whatever. When the river comes I'm super pissed at myself because I know for a fact betting here has to be a mistake. I don't give any weaker hand a chance to take a shot and I also did a poor job controlling the size of the pot when I'm either way ahead or way behind (or chop of course) out of position. I basically bet without thinking, I did it almost instantly, and the second I fired I felt like I made the wrong play.


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PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP1 ($1.55)
MP2 ($6.78)
CO ($4.82)
Button ($3.02)
Hero (SB) ($2)
BB ($4.89)
UTG ($4.69)
UTG+1 ($4.66)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, MP1 calls $0.02, MP2 calls $0.02, 1 fold, Button calls $0.02, Hero calls $0.01, BB checks

Flop: ($0.12) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (6 players)
Hero bets $0.10, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.10, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.10, 1 fold

Turn: ($0.42) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.25, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.25

River: ($0.92) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $0.48, MP2 raises to $1.68, Hero ..should not have bet the river

If I could replay this hand I would check the river as opposed to betting for sure. How about the flop and turn? Is betting correct here along with sizing? Is c/f'ing the river in the books or should we be c/c'ing since checking would give a king (or worse to take a stab at the pot)

Why would you want to fold? Only hands that beat you are AA, KK and 8. AA and KK are very unlikely since he over limped.

Villain just reads "full house" and thinks he got the nuts.

I could never find a fold here.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sir Pawnalot

Why would you want to fold? Only hands that beat you are AA, KK and 8. AA and KK are very unlikely since he over limped.

Villain just reads "full house" and thinks he got the nuts.

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Yeah that's basically my reason for calling. But should I bet here or just check call? Also how's my line on flop+turn

I like your bet sizing on the flop and turn. If villian had trips, he probably would have gotten greedy and raised.

On the river, villian clearly thinks he has a good hand, but it's hard to say just how good. If you think he's really got the 8, just call. Raise if you think he's got a pocket pair.

how is betting here bad
how are you not fistpumpinstacalling?

dumbasses at this level absolutely love to feed the rake when they're splitting the pot which is what more than likely happens in this situation...

insta-call...

if you're beat i'm pretty sure it's with an 8

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xX zorrito Xx

dumbasses at this level absolutely love to feed the rake when they're splitting the pot which is what more than likely happens in this situation...

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yea and nits who miss value have no room to speak

I figure betting here is bad because we're most likely looking at a chop. I don't see getting called with worse than a king. Might as well check/call and that way if opponent was on a missed FD and decides to steal we can pick off a possible bluff. Plus something like A8 is really common here in a multiway limped pot - its just unusual for the 1 outer to complete on the river. Check/calling would just give us a chance to get value out of air that the opponent might move in with, whereas betting would usually fold out air and the only thing calling is a king or an 8.

I'm not 'fistpump calling' because I had a really weird feeling like I was beat. It didn't help that my last couple sessions didn't go so hot, I just couldn't see him shoving with anything but the 8.

Oh and of course I called haha, it's just sick how I ran into quads for the second time in that session. (He flipped over A8) I was hoping there was a way I could have minimized the loss here, I figured check/calling would have done it - although I'd probably end up calling a shove anyway. The other hand involving quads I know I couldn't have avoided at all, I can post it if anyone wants to see my line just to be sure but it would be a waste.

you WILL get called by a five
why?

because he has a full house dude

we lose to ace boats and quads, split with kings, and this is 2nl

definitely fold yo.

Your not thinking about this properly. Take the line that is the most +ev. That is..the line that maximises ur expecatation. Betting this riv at 2nl...you will defnitely get called by worse ALOT. Checking here... and having JJ or something like that check-behind would be a massive mistake.

Yeah, we have the 3rd nuts here. There is only 1 more 8 in the deck, 2 more Ks, and only 6 combinations of AA. I've seen A-high call here. Any pocket pair that called you on the flop and turn is calling you again on the river, including someone with a 5 as iopq pointed out.

Not betting this river would be terrible. The fact that you ran into quads sucks, but that was a one-time thing. The next time you follow this line and villain calls you on the river with 44 or raises with 9d7d or 3s2s, you can smile and say, "Wtf? These players are that bad?"

Your river bet was pretty good since it allows a player to bluff shove over you and think you might fold. $0.55-.60 would work just as well, though. I'm not sure how often these guys are bluff-shoving the river, anyways, so betting like $0.75 or even more against a total station could actually be more profitable overall.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AFchung

we lose to ace boats and quads, split with kings, and this is 2nl

definitely fold yo.

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we split like 80% of the time

Quote:

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Originally Posted by iopq

you WILL get called by a five
why?

because he has a full house dude

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Hahahahaha sooo true. Alot of players are only playing their cards, a boat is a boat to them. And after playing 40 or so hands after with this opponent, the stats came 70/2/.09. . Now that's fishy, and of course this guy is calling with ace high on the river probably, but the fact that I got raised was like wow...he actually made quads. Could anyone lay this down if a player with stats like that and 0% raise on river just shoved into you? I didn't know his stats or style when I was faced with the shove though.

Oh yeah and AA/KK are just out of the picture. It was a multi-way limped pot, if villian was dumb enough to limp AA/KK behind limpers then he's getting paid this one time that his big pair isn't getting cracked.

You would need like 3,000 hands at least on someone before you know that they're only raising the river with the absolute nuts.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

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Originally Posted by xX zorrito Xx

dumbasses at this level absolutely love to feed the rake when they're splitting the pot which is what more than likely happens in this situation...

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yea and nits who miss value have no room to speak

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Lol, mad pwnage

You need to think about what options you have when you get to the river and which one is best.

Half of the stuff in this thread is a level of lolable

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

You need to think about what options you have when you get to the river and which one is best.

Half of the stuff in this thread is a level of lolable

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I felt like check/calling would have been best. Not because of hindsight but because as soon as I bet I didn't feel betting was the best option. Check/calling would induce weaker hands to bet into me, and it looks like chopping here is highly probable if opp has the king. The problem is I didn't take the time to think, which is why I'm kind of beating myself up over it because I hate making autopilot decisions regardless of how easy they might be.

I think betting the river is still better than checking. Alot of hands are going to call but not bet themselves. As played I instacall