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I've been experimenting at 10nl playing shorthanded against shortstackers preferably 50-60bb with some success.
I don't know if its +/-ev longterm but playing them very aggro in postion taking advantage of their inability to play post flop. Because of table image and declining stack they're willing to stack off light and then whamoa u show up w/ a monster.
Could this be a good run maybe/prob, just wondering what others think?
I always look for tables with shortstackers. My notion is that they are much worse than average and easy to beat.
Just how good could they be if they can't afford a full buy in or have already lost 1/2 of their stack?
Just remember not to be calling hands like small pairs + suited connectors to their raises because their short stack doesn't give you very good implied odds to try and hit the big hands those type of cards bring.
Remember the effective stack is the shorter stack between you and your opponent. So basically, you need to play them like you would play if you had the amount of chips they do.
The problem is that you don't get monsters very often, and with 20BB or 30BB stacks they don't give you value for them.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_it&enjoy
Plus, they don't reward quality implied odds hands like small pocket pairs or suited connectors, and they make stealing far less profitable because of the greatly increased risk of being shoved over.
I think to beat them you've got to play ABC poker and favour big pocket pairs and solid broadway cards over small pairs and drawing hands.
Usually they're playing short because they don't have the roll or the skillz for the level, so if you play them properly they're profitable, but they still irritate the hell out of me.
Point's taken, guess there always that fine line. For the most part these guys want to play small ball cuz of the effective stack; ie limp, call, check, fold.
They become alittle transparent in away, by pressuring them causes them to push lite which I like.
No way. You will encounter short stacks in tournaments much more often and be forced to deal with them. In cash games, I would much rather play at a table of players with decent stack sizes or it makes me buying in for the full amount almost pointless. It's when I pick up a decent hand in LP like 44 or 76s and I'm facing a big raise by some shorty. Do I have implied odds to just call? Hell no. So I either have to fold or shove over him and win what usually turns out to be a coin flip. I'm into coin flips in tournaments, but they're not really my bag in cash games, especially preflop. I only play at 50BB minimum tables. <-- best thing PokerStars ever came up with. I don't have any idea how any card room began allowing 20BB buyins in the first place. It turns cash games into tournaments and those players can suck my ass.
I just like bad players
if they're short stacks I'll take their money faster, but I'll get less of it
[quote="Airles™"]It's when I pick up a decent hand in LP like 44 or 76s and I'm facing a big raise by some shorty. Do I have implied odds to just call? Hell no. So I either have to fold or shove over him and win what usually turns out to be a coin flip. /quote]
Personally, I tend to look for tables that do have a short stack or two, sometimes all of them short stacks, then buy in for full buy in. I think that many of the short stackers who, especially at 10nl, think they can buy in for $2 (20bb) and then double up and disappear fodder for someone with even marginal skills. Often I find these players seriously over value their hands, shove with A-high on dry boards, call down bets with bottom pairs, etc... then they just can't believe they are beat.
There are some short stack regs out there on Stars who you have to look out for though, even at 10Nl... these guys are good at short stacking and play very strongly.
Also, remember when playing you are playing against effective stack, not against short stack with a big stack, so while the overall implied odds change because of stack size, your skills at playing by using implied odds don't, you just have to adjust to the smaller payout.
But we all like things a little different... maybe once I get good enough to beat everyone who buys in for a full buy in, I'll focus on only full buy in tables.
I agree it's irritating to play shorties when the tables are full but when there's 3 of us I likee shoving for stacks. pf I see hands like Q7 suited shoved because they called hands with worse the previous 2 hands and now their desperate. And yes there are good shorties but few and far between.
If someone playing full stack and start shoving w/ k10 wouldn't you be salivating why would it be diff with shorties?(just a question)
There are people who like shortstacks?
I freakin hate flipping with these idiots. I play around 20/18 a the moment @ FR, which means I constantly get in a spot where I raise with connected crap, some shortie pushs and I just about get the odds to call. Adding to the fact that they're usually not around long enough for you to realize who you are up against. They are either complete idiots, idiots playing higher than they should, or idiots who actually understand how to shortstack... By the time I realize I usually already stacked them.
The only thing I like about them is that up to 50NL almost everybody is getting retarded in sidepot situations.
If I was playing on stars, I would take advantage of the 50x minimum tables.
Most of them don't play that loose.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hit_it&enjoy