Another wtf 25NL hand - is this okay?

No real reads on the villains here other than the original 3 bettor seemed solid and tight. The crazy donk that shoves the flop is quite crazy often raises 6x pre as an open etc. Just bizzarely over bets all hands in general from what I've seen.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($29.35)
SB ($26.75)
Hero (BB) ($25)
UTG ($91.10)
MP ($16.75)
CO ($25.40)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG raises to $1, 1 fold, CO raises to $3, 1 fold, SB calls $2.90, Hero calls $2.75, UTG calls $2

Flop: ($12) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (4 players)
SB bets $23.75 (All-In), Hero calls $22 (All-In)

Total pot: $56

Ugh...tough with your read on the SB, but I don't like QQ on this flop in a 4-way pot.

I would call, and not feel too happy.

I'm definately considering 4betting pre. Do you have any info on UTG and CO?

I'd be more concerned with the CO behind me than with the SB. HU I would snap-call.
Definitely consider 4-betting pre.

Yeah upon reflection I think a 4 bet was probably better than flatting. Mainyl because flatting puts us in many horrible spots like this.

No info on the other two - hadn't seen either of them get at all out of line and this was the first 3 bet the guy had made. I should have tried to get in with 3 bettor with dead monies or just take down the dead monies pre.

6 handed and cold calling going on I'm shipping in the big blind in this situation... I wouldn't mind taking that dead money in the pot and if someone has aces or kings well so be it... there are a lot of hands that you beat in 3-betters range...

a shove preflop is the best play IMO... I couldn't call here... I'd raise or fold... and 6 handed I don't fold this without an amazing read...

I don't mind the flat call here. We're OOP against a raise and a re raise.
We def can't fold pre flop, flatting keeps the pot small lets us see the flop as cheap as possible and doesn't commit us to the hand. Any flop containing an ace or a king we are not going to be comfortable getting the money in.

Flop: ($12) 3d, 10d, 8d (4 players)

After the flop we have a draw to the 3rd nut flush,but that is all we have is a draw with two overs. We are behind to any two sooooted, trips, AA, KK with two people left to act. IMHO this is a fold, and we can find a better spot to get the money in.

hero 4bet-folds or nit folds with reads

as played, not too bad since you have the Qd

4 bet folding is horrible and turning my hand into a bluff

Imo you should never 4 bet a hand like JJ or QQ unless you are planning on getting it in or are deep - or have a sick read that villain will only stack of with AA and KK.

I hate my call pre also, should have just got it in.

4 bet/folding seems like a good way to light money on fire to me. I don't mind the call PF tbh since the only other real option is shoving and that kinda sucks with 3 ppl still to act and this action. I mean if we get called by UTG or CO we're probably toast (unless you have a really spewy image). Heck even SB could be tarping a bigger pair with that action in front of him.

Looots of money in the pot tho, so I think call>shovel>>>>>>4bet/fold.

lawl you're line of though kettleoffish is pretty much what I was thinking at the time - and nope no real spewy image at all that would cause JJ 1010 and stuff to call a 4bet (although this is 25NL so that prolly happens quite a bit regardless.)

I'm a little confused by the different oppinions on this one. I think I need spenda to come down from the poker heavens and tell it like it is!!

I have to admit I'm lost also. If you were guaranteed folds from UTG and CO I'd call and feel happy about it, but with them in the hand I'm just not sure I'm good often enough to feel good about it. It is possible that your Qd gives you 9 flush outs. While Ad and Kd both beat you, noone says they have them given the pre-flop action. Even if they have KK or AA they could still have them without the diamond. If you call, I don't see how anyone else can call without at least a draw to the diamonds (and I mean the Ad or Kd, not a lower diamond) in which case you're pretty much drawing dead (or to two queens for quads). I think if you call it's probably incorrect for AA to call after you if they don't have the Ad. That's half of AA and KK hands. And it's a fourth of 9/16 AK hands and 6/8 AQ hands.

It's probably a fold though. SB is quite likely to be shoving a vulnerable hand here with just one of the diamonds and you probably have more than 40% equity against his range, but in this 3bet pot UTG and CO will both fold less than 50% of the time, and when one of them calls you are a significant dog to them. While the pot will be bigger with multiple people your share in it relative to the number of people will be smaller.

Carroters,
you say that the only read you have is the the original 3bettor seemed "solid and tight". What range of hands do you assign to CO, SB and UTG?

Also, what is your plan here if you flat pre and UTG shoves but CO folds? In other words what is UTG's 4bet/shove range?

Yep that was literally my only read on them tbh.

As far as the 4 bet range goes for utg its gona be AK QQ KK AA and Im not prepared obv to get it in with him should he 4 bet after I flat. So my plan is fold should UTG shove.

Hand ranges well for UTG without any real read the assumption would be all pocket pairs + AJs AQ AK pos KQs.

For CO as this is his 1st 3 bet in around 40 hands: 1010+ AJs+ possibly afew random suited aces, lower pps butn again this speculation.

For SB Donk all PPs most good aces, lots of suited connectors and some hands as abd as K10suited etc.

Thing is even with utg and CO having reasonably strong ranges in this spot - they mostly miss the flop and i think struggle to do much but fold to my overcallwith non diamond AA or KK. I really jus wnated to isolate the donks weak range so I kinda like my play on the flop.

If you call UTG and CO do not need AA or KK with the diamond to call, they can call profitably with AdKx, AxKd, KdQx, AdQx, AdJx, KdJx if these are in their ranges (at least profitably against you - all AdXx hands in their range in any case)

what are the villains' stats including 3b frequency?