25nl 6 max JJ in 3 bet pot facing open shove

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11-20-2008, 09:40 PM
yourfather

25nl 6 max JJ in 3 bet pot facing open shove

Sb is pretty aggro. My note on him says "Thinks im FOS, 3 bet AJo from the button"

CO is kinda weak passive I'm not too worried about him having anything good here.

I kinda feel like he does this with 99-1010-JJ. Call?

Full Tilt Poker, $0.10/$0.25 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 6 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

BB: $26
Hero (UTG): $46.85
MP: $30.10
CO: $25.35
BTN: $25.35
SB: $25

Pre-Flop: J:spade: J:club: dealt to Hero (UTG)
Hero raises to $1, MP folds, CO calls $1, BTN folds, SB raises to $4.25, BB folds, Hero calls $3.25, CO calls $3.25

Flop: ($13) 5:diamond: 4:heart: 2:club: (3 Players)
SB bets $20.75 and is All-In
11-20-2008, 10:45 PM
flomo

i folded
11-20-2008, 10:49 PM
a500lbgorilla

If he's 3-betting light, JJ is in my 4bet value range
11-20-2008, 11:00 PM
Parasurama

If villain is really that aggro I would 4bet pre and get it in. As played I would call flop. Against most players though this is a call preflop and a fold on the flop.
11-20-2008, 11:15 PM
yourfather

Yeah thought about 4 betting but didn't. My note says he's aggro but I'm not sure he is getting it in too wide. If he shoves over my 4-bet I have to get it in and his 5-bet shove range is surely pretty tight.

I can't do the math on it cuz I am tired and am not sure how to figure it out with the CO in there. But I would think 4 betting here is likely profitable.

Anyway, I called.
11-20-2008, 11:53 PM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Yeah thought about 4 betting but didn't. My note says he's aggro but I'm not sure he is getting it in too wide. If he shoves over my 4-bet I have to get it in and his 5-bet shove range is surely pretty tight.

exactly! stop being a nit!
11-21-2008, 12:02 AM
kmind

Huge difference in him thinking people are FOS in spots where their ranges are wide as opposed to spots where our range is much tighter. I definitely want more reads here before I get it in.
11-21-2008, 06:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

If he's 3-betting light, JJ is in my 4bet value range

He doesn't know he's 3-betting light, he thinks he's 3-betting AJo for value. So he does it in awkward spots, obv.
11-21-2008, 07:40 AM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

If he's 3-betting light, JJ is in my 4bet value range

How would you size this 4bet, if you made it?
11-21-2008, 07:53 AM
jackvance

Yeah I'm also tempted to call, I mean a lot of people would just shove AA-QQ here because they don't know how to play a strong hand OOP, but from your description this could be the kind of player who could be shoving more semi hands like 88-QQ or even AK (hey he has the wheel draw).. so for balance I'd call if I'd been running good or something.
11-21-2008, 08:52 AM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

If he's 3-betting light, JJ is in my 4bet value range

He doesn't know he's 3-betting light, he thinks he's 3-betting AJo for value. So he does it in awkward spots, obv.

That's light enough!
11-21-2008, 08:53 AM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

If he's 3-betting light, JJ is in my 4bet value range

How would you size this 4bet, if you made it?

About 9.5
11-21-2008, 09:08 AM
oskar

I'm not all that happy with the player note. A 3-bet from the bb with AJ is not loose to a steal raise, or against a player who opens connectors at 6-max. If UTG bets and someone calls - then it is, but that needs to be part of the player note.
I'd pay attention to this since your 4-bet range might depend on it.
- what does FOS mean?

I really want to call the flop. Heavily dependent on reads there because this is such an awkward play. In doubt I would lay it down and hope to see him in a similar situation. If you haven't seen him push on the flop so far, I guess this is an easy fold.

If I see this I usually take a note saying: "shove 245 flop 2x pot oop ???"
And hope to get a read later. A couple of those is better than nothing.
11-21-2008, 11:13 AM
yourfather

It's not a great note but it let's me know he's capable of 3 betting light, probably squeezing light etc..People rarely do something only once.

FOS means full of shit. I remember one session I played back at him a bit and might have showed down a bluff or two.

So yeah I called and he had AKo and hit the wheel draw.
11-21-2008, 02:09 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Parasurama

Against most players though this is a call preflop and a fold on the flop.

why? you don't have odds to set hunt.
11-21-2008, 02:10 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

If he's 3-betting light, JJ is in my 4bet value range

How would you size this 4bet, if you made it?

About 9.5

Thx - I've been adding the "light 4 bet" to my game, 4 betting when deep-stacked against known light 3bettors. I used to only do this with KK+, but then I read something Spenda wrote and started counting how often ppl fold to 4bets. They fold a lot.

It feels like an insane amount of money to put on a hand like TT or JJ preflop, but a 4bet just doesn't have to work that often to be profitable. If you can get the reads right and have them fold maybe 2 out of 3 times you 4bet light, it's a big winner.
11-21-2008, 02:15 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfather

FOS means full of shit. I remember one session I played back at him a bit and might have showed down a bluff or two.

ya but does he think you are fos right now or was that only for the last session? that kind of stuff doesn't really carry over. he probably doesn't even remember you.
11-21-2008, 02:35 PM
yourfather

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by yourfather

FOS means full of shit. I remember one session I played back at him a bit and might have showed down a bluff or two.

ya but does he think you are fos right now or was that only for the last session? that kind of stuff doesn't really carry over. he probably doesn't even remember you.

You are probably right. I just wrote what my note said. unless he takes notes too.