Operation: Road to 5/10 - STOPPED

I've been playing FR for about 1 year and I won some money, which is cool.
For the latest 58k hands in 200NL FR, I'm running about 1 BB/100, even if I'm running $1400 below all-in EV, I'm still not happy with this.

So I've decided to really learn how to play poker and thus this blog!
Therefore, I'm going to really start to learn 6max for the next 1 and 1/2 months.
I'll try to post every sessions' most important hands and the status of my learning.
(My previous operation to reach 400NL FR will be on hold)

I have already tried 6max in the past but I was never able to win at it. I think in 15k hands I should be something like -1 BB/100.

I'll start off at 100NL (even if I have 51 Buy-ins for 200NL ;-))

So wish me luck and 6max here I come! :-)

Good luck sir!

I will be watching this blog with great interest incase I decide to transition back to 6m again.

Thanks bbickes!

I forgot to mention that I started my operation yesterday and here's the stats:
1000 hands
$-22 earnings

Nothing big really, I try to get used to the 6max aggressiveness.
I ran very nitty (16/13) as I'm trying to get used to short hand play. I have the feeling that I can run 20/18 by stints, then I calm down and I start again ...
I sucked out on a Nut FD vs set but I got sucked out on a 3bet pot with AA vs 77. So things balance out a bit.

Things to work on:
- put villain's on ranges ALWAYS!
- do not run at stints!
- 4bet bluff once in a while if 3bet aggro TAG 3bet from SB/BB our LP raise.

tbh u shouldnt try to match stats of a 20/18 since you w0nt know wot to do postflop. trust me in that you should play your nit stats but really work on your postflop play. then things will srt themselves out and you will become a 20/18 player

Good point Goat!

I have another yesterday evening.
Hands: 1000
$37 earnings (WOW huge!! ;-))
My stats are the same as the previous session: 16/13 (OMG, I'm such a nit!!!)

Here's a hand from yesterday's session:
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Hero (BB) ($100)
UTG ($99.10)
MP ($117.35)
CO ($138.85)
Button ($108.65)
SB ($99)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
1 fold, MP calls $1, 3 folds, Hero checks

Flop: ($2.50) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2, MP calls $2

Turn: ($6.50) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP calls $5

River: ($16.50) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $8.25, Hero raises $25, MP calls $16.75

Total pot: $66.50

villain was unknown, which makes this move bad, overall, I believe
However, villain's 1/2 bet on river IP looks so like 2 pairs/steal. A flush/boat would bet a bit more I believe taking in consideration our line. Villain tanked a lot before he made the call. Plus villain's only needs to fold 50% here for the move to be BE.
What do you think would be his betting/calling range?

id just bet/fold flop and put no more money in.

Yeah, I used to run like 16/11 at 6-max (and win) and DaGoat would tell me to stop being so nitty. I'm now more like 22/18 and didnt really consciously change my ranges, it just developed as I got comfortable.

exactly, u can unconsciously change as u get better. since your playing 6max frm going to FR why not just ease into it and play nitty. it does win.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

id just bet/fold flop and put no more money in.

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I just understood why! Thanks for the comment!

Tiny session yesterday:
Hands: 270
$44 earnings

I missed $41 on a pot where I had a set and the river completed the flush. I was OOP and should have pushed, but I, wrongly, thought that villain would bet IP.

Quick update.
Played another session yesterday evening.
Hands 1000
$-487 Earnings

I played well and manage to run 18/15, but I ran extremely bad in all-in EV (i.e. -$400) and lost a big pot with set under a set.
I'm still learning 6max, but please poker gods help me a bit in the future, OK? ;-)

need to just appreciate the variance. u can play low stakes FR with almost no variance imo.

Yup, I have to take variance as it is! I don't know if I've ever be able to appreciate it, though ;-)
And yes, low (even low midstakes) FR have very minor variance.
(still -5 BI in all-in EV at 200NL FR though!).

Inspired by your blog, I've also decided to try once in a while to post some maths for most EV moves.

One of the stacks I lost yesterday was QQ vs KK and I was wondering how profitable (if ever) would to 5bet shove villain's 4bet?

Let's see the following situation:

100BB stacks 6 max:
UTG folds, MP raises to 4BB, CO folds, BU folds, Hero (SB) raises to 12BB, BB folds, MP raises to 32BB, Hero ???

Let's suppose MP is standard TAG.
First, call is a no, no! It's either push of fold.
OK so let's look into the math:

EV(push) = EV(fold)*X + EV(call)*(1-X)

EV(fold) = 49BB
EV(call) = equity * 201BB - 88BB

Let's suppose villain calls with AK/AA/KK/QQ, that's about 2.18% of hands. Our equity vs these hands = 39%

EV(call) = 0.39* 201BB - 88B = -9.6BB

EV(push) = 49.X - 9.6*(1-X) = 58.6X - 9.6

Fold equity for BE EV is:

0 = 58.6X - 9.6
X = 16%

16% of needed fold equity is not a lot at all, but the problem is that very few TAGs (even aggro) would 4bet to 32BB and fold (i.e. having villain bluffing 16% of his 4bets to 32BB in this situation is really bad as he will be priced to call with a lot of hands as we would have to call 68BB for a 137BB pot which is almost 1:2 pot odds!).

Now if villain only calls the push with KK+ is worse as he most likely would not 4bet AKo.

good analysis, a minor point is your counting of the money in the pot. i count your bet of 12 + Opp raise 32+ BB 2 = 46bb. otherwise looks fine.

just as a point do you really think 3betting QQ is a good play vs such a tight player? at full ring id fold QQ here easy. In 6max id need a good read and super tight stats to fold.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

good analysis, a minor point is your counting of the money in the pot. i count your bet of 12 + Opp raise 32+ BB 2 = 46bb. otherwise looks fine.

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Yup, you are right. It's actually 47BB (with the Blind from BB).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Da GOAT

just as a point do you really think 3betting QQ is a good play vs such a tight player? at full ring id fold QQ here easy. In 6max id need a good read and super tight stats to fold.

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Actually, I meant a standard 6max TAG (i.e. 20/19) not a a standard nit. Vs such a standard TAG do you call? The issue is that 6max is very aggressive and villain's can push you off QQ easily.
FR OOP vs a standard (13/10 FR TAG) I call and play postflop, most of the time they tell by the TURN whether they have a better hand or they let it go on the TURN/RIVER.

Had another session yesterday evening.
Hands: 660
-$7 Earnings

I played around 17/14, still pretty nitty. I'm starting to feel more confortable with 6max.
I play at iPoker and the thing that tilt's me a bit is the fact that on Turbo tables (where most often the best action is) you have very few seconds to play.
Generally, I think that I played OK. I was up to 2 BI of profit up to near the end but then 2 hands happened.
Here's one:
No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($104.10)
SB ($103.55)
BB ($152.01)
UTG ($101.50)
MP ($20)
Hero (CO) ($109)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
2 folds, Hero raises $3.50, 1 fold, SB raises $12.50, 1 fold, Hero calls $9.50

Flop: ($27) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $19, Hero raises $96 (All-In), SB calls $71.55 (All-In)

Turn: ($208.10) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($208.10) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $208.10

villain show Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gifQhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif

villain was 19/17/ 7% 3bets.
On the flop we have 38% equity vs QQ+ so if c-bets AK here (which is very reasonable) we are go for the push.
I still wondering if a raise to $42 would be better? Because a push really unveils my hand.

just saw this op - best of luck learning the short-handed game! I'll also watch with interest, at some stage I may follow you on this journey....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmy44

Yup, I have to take variance as it is! I don't know if I've ever be able to appreciate it, though ;-)
And yes, low (even low midstakes) FR have very minor variance.
(still -5 BI in all-in EV at 200NL FR though!).

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disagree, 5-10 buyin downswings happen often enough at full ring if you keep pushing edges deep...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

just saw this op - best of luck learning the short-handed game! I'll also watch with interest, at some stage I may follow you on this journey....

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Thanks!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by daven

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmy44

Yup, I have to take variance as it is! I don't know if I've ever be able to appreciate it, though ;-)
And yes, low (even low midstakes) FR have very minor variance.
(still -5 BI in all-in EV at 200NL FR though!).

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disagree, 5-10 buyin downswings happen often enough at full ring if you keep pushing edges deep...

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I meant -5 BI in all-in EV, not 5-10 BI downsings ;-)

Had another session yesterday:
Hands 1000 (I don't konw why but I seem to play only 1000 hands ;-))
$43 Earnings.

Overall, I think I played really well. I was able to pawn some tight players. However, I still seem to be loosing more then I gain vs aggro stations (maybe it's a perception, I have to check HEM for this).
Just got into a marginal spot, where I raised to 4.5BB with KQo an UTG limper and a 19/18 player from SB (who 3bets 11% from SB) 3bets to 16BB, I then 4bets him to 34BB, he pushes and I fold. The reasons for me to 4bet , instead of calling, were that this villain was really aggro and unless I hit a K or Q, he would push me off the hand.

An update from Wednesday session:
Hands: 960
$122 earnings

I played really nitty. I think I have to enter in more pots against loose/stationnary players with more marginal holdings when I have position.
I was at 2.5 BI profits, but got all in on the turn vs a 46/3 guy where I have the 2nd nut straight. He also ha dit, but he was freerolling and his FD card hit on river. That's poker!

Meh for November!
Hands: 800
$-15 earnings

It was the month where I played the most hands (24k) and it was my biggest loosing month ever: $-775.
(Argh: including $-1500 All-in EV, 5 BI at 200NL FR and 5 BI at 100NL 6max)
I'm glad November is finished and that it's December now! ;-)

Had another session yesterday:
Hands: 800
$-75 Earnings

Nothing special. I think I'm starting to get the feeling on how to play more like a 20/18.
Notes for next session:
- I need to play better vs stations, I don't think I get enough money from them ...
- increase my 3betting (currently I'm at around 5%)
- put villain's on range of hands, ON EVERY HAND

Had 2 sessions lately:

Friday:
Hands: 1200
Earnings: $330

Sunday:
Hands: 1200
Earnings: $-169

All in all, it was okish ... But I'm still not happy, I'm not playing aggro enough and loosing too much without showdown.

Notes for next session:
- increase my 3betting
- put villains on range of hands, ON EVERY HAND!!

Update:
Hands: 300
$86 Earnings

I luckboxed KK vs AA.
I really have to examine/improve my game vs 50/5 or 50/10 guys.
I seem not to win a lot vs them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jimmy44

Update:
Hands: 300
$86 Earnings

I luckboxed KK vs AA.
I really have to examine/improve my game vs 50/5 or 50/10 guys.
I seem not to win a lot vs them.

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watch your sd value. A-high/bottom pr is often good enough to see a cheap sd, no value in betting these as bluffs early on.

Thanks for the help XTR! I'll think about that.

As always I became lazy to update this + running bad did not help ;-)
I started coaching in December with a very good coach! ;-) From which I learned a huge amount of stuff!
Which help me a lot to have some really nice sessions at the end of the December at 100NL 6max.

As from January I decided to try 200NL. For the moment I'm down 2 buy-ins after 2.5k hands, which is not that bad, mainly, because I fell that my game has improved a lot and I lost some big pots as coolers or beats, so I'm quite happy.
I just have to increase my aggression level!
Let's see how things progress!

gl at pwning 200nl jimmy!

Thanks for the gl mate!
And sorry for not having answered before.

Inspired by my coach and by griffey's operation, I decided to set a very ambitions target: take shots at 5/10! But no timeframe for this.
Which means that my goal is to reach a BR of about 35k-40k.

I'm currently playing 1/2 with a BR of 11k.
Let's see if I can finish this operation this year ;-)

I have faith in you! I bet your coach easily gets you there! GL!!

Thanks mate!

January went quite well. I'm playing much better. However, still need to work on c-bets in general.
Let's see how things will go in February!
BR: 12.7k
Taking shots at 400NL at 15k.

Here's the graph:
http://img242.imageshack.us/img242/7...pographls5.jpg

[/img]

Jimmy, just saw this, and I'll be watching with interest. I learned to beat poker by switching to 6m (I am a degen gambool-monster at heart). But I've transitioned into FR just because it was more profitable for me as I've changed sites and moved up. This summer, I'd like to do much the same thing you're doing now and spend some time learning to beat both 6m and FR for good rates. I'll hopefully be at 100nl by then. But I've always thought my game would benefit from not specializing so much.

Anyway, GLGLGLGL and you push up through the midstakes.

Thanks Rob!

BTW, I think you should focus only in 1 game (either FR or 6max), but play a small % the other game.
- Play 95-90% 6max and maybe 5-10% FR (the FR will help you to play a bit more tight and be patient).
- Play 95-90% FR and maybe 5-10% 6max (the 6max will help you to be more aggressive).

GL Jimmy. I remember when we shared the fish at everest. You've come a long way

Hi Ginger!

Yup I remember, you gave me a lot of tips on Everest in the summer of 2007 when I started the Cash Games!
Well, I did FR - 25NL -> 50NL -> 100NL -> 200NL -> Then huge downswing and I decided to start playing 6max to really learn the game, 'cus even if I was winning in FR I was not playing poker!
Then last November I started 100NL 6max and decided to get a coach in December and boomswitch!! ;-)

jimmyboy!

awesome to follow your progress, you´re rocking! whatever happened to our session review, you can still hit me up anytime either via email or msn/aim/skype. good luck bro, looking forward to catch up with you in stakes at ongame!

Thanks XTR!
Yes, you are right, I have forgotten about this ... first I ask you about this and then I forget, damm me!
I'll try to get a session to you for review.

February went meh.
Started off bad, but recovered a bit just to have an epic fall but then a huge upswing!
In a sence I'm quite happy, because after the epic fall I managed to get my self together and continue to play good.
What's really bothering me it's my red line. My goal for next month is to have a positive red line, let's see if I can make it!

Here' the graph:
http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/3...b2009poker.jpg

March sucked!
Pawned 200NL up to the last week of March and then got panwed harder by 400NL!

I'll not be able to play that many hands in April due to holidays so it sucks even more as I'll not be able to regain momemtum for another 400NL try out that soon.

http://img7.imageshack.us/img7/581/pomarch09graph.jpg
http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/8461/...ingsummary.jpg
+ Bonus
- Coaching
- FTR HU Championship
=-$900

Pretty nice BB/100 (6.16) for 200NL, but pretty bad BB/100 for 400NL. 3k hands it's not a lot of hands, but still sucks.

My biggest loosing month ever! :-(

don't give up man.

what differences have you found in the players from 200nl vs 400nl so far?

Thanks mate! I won't give up but it won't be an easy road!

As I can see, the big differences are, in only 3.2k hands:
- Less stationary donks (actually, due to this I played looser in 400NL then 200NL!)
- More aggression pre and post flop
- Lighter value betting

What size roll did you go to 400NL with? And are you not playing Ongame anymore?

I went with 14.7k to 400NL and I'm down to 12k. I'll try again 400NL at when I reach the same BR.
And yes, I'm still playing on Ongame.

3 weeks ago (after a big down session) I decided to stop playing poker for a while. Now, I must say that I don't really miss poker ... :-(
With the life I have it become very very difficult to find some time to play and not run all the time. In another life I think I would play a lot more and be more relaxed.
So I'm going to take it easy and not play for the next months and maybe years. Anyway, poker will always be here so I can always come back if I have more time.

In the meantime, I would like to thank everyone (expecially my coach!!) that helped me on my poker journey.

Best of luck to all of you for poker and your private life!

Cheers!

weaksauce