my biggest pot ever.

Villain is a 44/7/1.1 fish, notes say he "overplays TP 2pr/ slow plays monsters till river". We had gone back and forth after stacking off early in the session vs his AAA when I caught my JJJ on the river waiting for a non A to bet. Most of my stack is from his slow playing and not getting paid, and him overbetting TP into my overpair. He also called me a fish for getting in with a combo draw 100BB's deep on the flop in a 3 bet pot, so he doesn't respect me. We have huge stacks at the table and I have TPTK, I really don't like stacking off here but I am ahead a ton. Any thoughts.

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

MP ($221)
Button ($212.60)
SB ($737.32)
BB ($500.25)
Hero (UTG) ($429.20)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
Hero raises $7, 2 folds, SB calls $6, BB calls $5

Flop: ($21) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $16, 1 fold, BB raises $69, Hero calls $53

Turn: ($159) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB bets $424.25 (All-In), Hero calls $353.20 (All-In)

River: ($865.40) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Total pot: $865.40

Results in white below:
BB had Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (two pair, Aces and eights).
Hero didn't show Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (two pair, Aces and eights).
Outcome: BB won $71.05

he owned you hard

why did you post results. i cant make an unbiased comment now, but i think i wouldve said calling turn jam is pretty awful. your read says he overplays 2p right? even if he overplays TP big time there is almost no way he is doing this with A7/9/J/Q.

I notice these huge turn jams from fish are usually the goods, they can't stand to get sucked out on so they just jam it in.

i would elect to fold the flop

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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

I notice these huge turn jams from fish are usually the goods, they can't stand to get sucked out on so they just jam it in.

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nah the bet happy fish do it for value

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Quote:

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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

I notice these huge turn jams from fish are usually the goods, they can't stand to get sucked out on so they just jam it in.

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nah the bet happy fish do it for value

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Yea well its value/protection and in reality I'm not really paying these off so against me its usually protection. I'm not really sure if I conveyed what I meant correctly.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

i would elect to fold the flop

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Yea this is where I had the most problem. I figured I was either getting it all in since he's jamming the TP/2pr or folding. If I call the flop I am stacking off and actually snapped the turn.

This type hates the draws. He doesn't want you to draw and jams.

I think I played it horribly eitehr way.



Will? you can't be objective seeing results? I would think you could look street by street and decide on my effort. The results are for the weak and the nosy so they don't ask.

fairly bad jym. def fold turn

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Originally Posted by jyms

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

i would elect to fold the flop

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Yea this is where I had the most problem. I figured I was either getting it all in since he's jamming the TP/2pr or folding. If I call the flop I am stacking off and actually snapped the turn.

This type hates the draws. He doesn't want you to draw and jams.

I think I played it horribly eitehr way.



Will? you can't be objective seeing results? I would think you could look street by street and decide on my effort. The results are for the weak and the nosy so they don't ask.

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Doesn't he have A9+ as often as he has Two Pair. How often is he jamming with his weak top pairs after raising you on the flop? I think you have to call the raise on the flop. But unless he's really really spewy, his range to shove the turn is usually AQ/AK and two pair+. He might bluff in this spot, but it's safe to say he probably does it infrequently enough so that anything that's not a bluff kills you. We do usually have at least 6 or 9 outs if we're beat though depending which two pair he's got. Are 10's in his range? Would he 3bet over the flatter with TT?

All things considered if sets are in his range you almost have to fold the turn. He'd have to be really fishy to shove a flush draw here. The draws that make sense with this line the combinations of the JQK of clubs, might shove, but do they shove often enough to make up for when you're crushed? Probably not. I'd think if he had a combo draw that he'd either check and hope you checked behind after getting c/r'ed on the flop, or make some kind of 1/2 pot blocking bet so that he could see a cheap river.

It's pretty obvious he wants you to call or fold, you just have to ask yourself which he wants more (in this instance he'll almost always want a call more than a fold, and you have to ask yourself whether he wants a call with a hand you can beat). Wasn't it Sklansky that said "Figure out what your opponent wants you to do, and do the opposite."?

station

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jyms

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

i would elect to fold the flop

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Yea this is where I had the most problem. I figured I was either getting it all in since he's jamming the TP/2pr or folding. If I call the flop I am stacking off and actually snapped the turn.

This type hates the draws. He doesn't want you to draw and jams.

I think I played it horribly eitehr way.



Will? you can't be objective seeing results? I would think you could look street by street and decide on my effort. The results are for the weak and the nosy so they don't ask.

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yeah i just dont get why people even put them out there. we dont know the results when we are playing, so why should this be any different?

edit: that is rhetorical by the way

I do this every now and then as well. Don't be too hard on yourself.

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Originally Posted by thizzSantaCruz

I notice these huge turn jams from fish are usually the goods, they can't stand to get sucked out on so they just jam it in.

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qft