200NL: What is your calling range?

No-Limit Hold'em, $2.00 BB (7 handed) - Hold'em Manager Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($203.07)
UTG ($256.53)
Hero (MP1) ($290.95)
MP2 ($37)
CO ($195)
Button ($202)
SB ($160.75)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with XX
1 fold, Hero raises $8, 2 folds, Button calls $8, 2 folds

Flop: ($19) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $14, Button calls $14

Turn: ($47) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $35, Button calls $35

River: ($117) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button bets $82, Hero ???

villain was 16/13/3.
Some history between the both of us.
I stole a pot from him lately by c/raising as he seemed to bet when checked to.

sick spot, would've thought he'd check back most of his range on the river
how often are u cbetting?
flop he's probably calling most one pair hands, maybe weak draws, raising strong draws and two pair plus.
you barrel the turn on an A so ur range is still huge, he calls tho. i think draws are folding here. he probably has a medium pair or an A
River it looks like an A or TT-QQ, or rivered two pair. Really cant see many bluffs with his line, so im calling with at least a strong A :(

really depends on ur image and tendencies

I don't play 200NL, but what is my range leading up to the river? If I had overcards on the flop, I'd check

Is this correct against this villain? I'm sure if his range is PPs it's a bet, but if he has some sooted connectors, that hit his range pretty hard

so the only hand that would make sense to play this way for me is A8s, A7s, and sets

but if I had cbet with a strong ace, I would have checked the turn

villain has a combo draw with diamonds right? Like AdQd or AdKd or maybe Td9d altho either of those could've raised flop. Anyways they make sense.

Wow shit wtf else does he have here? Surely a 2p+ raises somewhere?

He's on a kind of weird line here for sure. Call with ATC just so you can tell us in FTR what he had.

I wonder what you could possibly have in your range that gets you to the river in this point that makes you NOT want to call this, other than a bluff.

On this hand, I didn't thought villain had a set/2pair, otherwise, I would have expected him to raise somewhere.
On river, when he bets 2/3 pot IP, I can only put him on a Straight, maybe AK/AQ (possibly with diamond), 98dd or a bluff.
From villain's perspective we might as well have a Big Ace/bluff.
So indeed, our range seems pretty weak. Would that place be good for a bluff from villain?

this is not a good place to bluff for the villain
it would be a better place to bluff if the flush draw came

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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what do you mean "ever"

not even if you have a set? obv you're calling with a set
what about aces up?

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Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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wat

if we have a bluffcatcher the decision is between c/c and c/f. if we have air the decision is between c/r or c/f.

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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wat

if we have a bluffcatcher the decision is between c/c and c/f. if we have air the decision is between c/r or c/f.

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nuts

in 1/2 fr where its not nuts-aggro-insane, is barreling this turn and then checking the river the best play or shouldnt we be bet/folding river ?

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

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Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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wat

if we have a bluff catcher the decision is between c/c and c/f. if we have air the decision is between c/r or c/f.

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This should have read IF you have a bluff catcher. I meant what you said, I just didn't explain it well since we don't know our hand and was I explaining both lines.

Still not calling. it's C/raise or C/fold. Now we need to decide on villains hand and then ours.

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Originally Posted by iopq

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Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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what do you mean "ever"

not even if you have a set? obv you're calling with a set
what about aces up?

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I gues it depends on or read of villains range of hands. But why call? Are we ahead or behind? Do we want a showdown or not. If we think he's bluffing a missed draw and we have air, we can't call and win the pot. If we think he has Ax and we have a set, we raise. I think calling is our third option here, but again it depends on so much, like how good is our hand vs his range, can we beat most of it or only the bottom. Do we want to get value from 80% of his hands or fold a better hand with air.

I believe the question asked was: what is our calling range. I don't think he meant what we should do when we have air or when we have the nuts, but what we should do with a marginal hand. I.E. what hands do we consider bluff catchers here?

I asked my previous question because maybe we should consider a different action on the turn given our hand other than bet/folding (because if we're bet/calling an all in on the turn I don't see why we would ever check/fold this river).

This is a really bad spot to bluff for villain and he might not even try and valuebet AQ here, depending on how solid he is and what he thinks of you.

However, with your read:

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I stole a pot from him lately by c/raising as he seemed to bet when checked to.

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I'd probably fold AJ as played and call AQ/AK.

With that same read I dont see why you would ever bet that Ace on the turn if you actually have one (not much value in it other than AK), especially since he bets like a monkey when checked to. I'd check that turn with all aces and just expect to get to showdown and expect to see a bluff here sometimes, and sets the other times.

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Originally Posted by jyms

Still not calling. it's C/raise or C/fold.

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With a bluffcatcher?
dude, this makes zero sense. sorry.

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Originally Posted by jyms

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Originally Posted by iopq

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Originally Posted by jyms

I'm not calling this ever. I either C/R this river or I c/fold after I fired two barrels into a super wet flop. He either got there or didn't. You have a bluff catcher. What do you want to believe.

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what do you mean "ever"

not even if you have a set? obv you're calling with a set
what about aces up?

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I gues it depends on or read of villains range of hands. But why call? Are we ahead or behind? Do we want a showdown or not. If we think he's bluffing a missed draw and we have air, we can't call and win the pot. If we think he has Ax and we have a set, we raise. I think calling is our third option here, but again it depends on so much, like how good is our hand vs his range, can we beat most of it or only the bottom. Do we want to get value from 80% of his hands or fold a better hand with air.

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What if we think he is bluffing most of the time (and folding to a raise) and will only call our raise if we're behind? Say we have aces up, and we think that he's either full of it or has a set, because he wouldn't bet a strong ace, but rather check it down.

this looks so much like a set and with like 678 on the board it hits opps range hard IMO.
I think this is a spot where you need to call with the top of your range and muck the rest
Its not like opp is going to be bluffing with KQ here is it?

He could be bluffing with a hand like 65 or two diamonds

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Originally Posted by iopq

He could be bluffing with a hand like 65 or two diamonds

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if thats the case then the question isnt 'what range do we call with' its about what range do we check to induce a bluff?

tbh, id call with as little as a bare 8 eg 98s possibly a 7x depends on opponent and flow and certainly JJ/TT type hands