2 2pair hands against same villain...thoughts on hand 2?

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10-31-2008, 08:09 AM
settecba

2 2pair hands against same villain...thoughts on hand 2?

This 2 hands are very similar and against same villain...i dont use a HUD so i can only say i hadnt seen villain done anything weird before this, and he seemed tight, but not so much.

OK, so here´s Hand 1:

$0.05/$0.1 Deep No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Gerrard37 ($30.55)
UTG+1 TTconcept ($10.35)
MP1 JaspOr ($9.55)
MP2 TryMoreFish ($8.85)
MP3 OOMichaOO ($9.90)
CO popoli77p ($10.10)
BTN dipser911 ($24.90)
SB donfetreap ($10.00)
BB Hero ($31.20)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is BB :3h: :6s:
2 folds, JaspOr calls $0.10, 5 folds, Hero checks

Flop: :3c: :6h: :8c: ($0.25, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.25, JaspOr calls $0.25

Turn: :2s: ($0.75, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.60, JaspOr calls $0.60

River: :7h: ($1.95, 2 players)
Hero checks, JaspOr bets $1.95, Hero calls $1.95

Final Pot: $5.85
JaspOr shows: :qd: :jd:
Hero shows: :3h: :6s:

Hero wins $5.30 ( won +$2.40 )
JaspOr lost -$2.90

Few hands later...

Hand 2:

$0.05/$0.1 Deep No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG Gerrard37 ($31.55)
UTG+1 TTconcept ($10.80)
MP JaspOr ($8.25)
CO TryMoreFish ($10.55)
BTN OOMichaOO ($10.00)
SB donfetreap ($11.10)
BB Hero ($34.90)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is BB :jc: :ts:
2 folds, JaspOr calls $0.10, TryMoreFish calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero checks

Flop: :2h: :tc: :js: ($0.35, 3 players)
Hero bets $0.35, JaspOr calls $0.35, TryMoreFish folds

Turn: :4c: ($1.05, 2 players)
Hero bets $0.80, JaspOr raises to $1.60, $0.8 to Hero ($33.65)?

Is he frustrated about the other hand and holds a weak J? 22 or 44? air again( i dont think so...he just called last time)?

so...call? standard 3bet? big 3bet to put him AI?
10-31-2008, 08:23 AM
killerkebab

Hand 1 looks fine to me, although you should hide the results :)

I'm re-raising in hand 2. I want to get the money in ASAP here.
10-31-2008, 09:00 AM
settecba

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerkebab

Hand 1 looks fine to me, although you should hide the results :)

I'm re-raising in hand 2. I want to get the money in ASAP here.

i showed results because they were important to judge hand 2.
And i am asking about hand 2, not 1, that is why i post results of hand 1 but not 2...
10-31-2008, 09:08 AM
oskar

I overbet the pot in both hands. By betting what you did bet with the stacks involved, you're giving all kinds of draws great implied odds.
In hand #2 I would reraise to 5$. If he has a set... too bad. You're ahead a lot here against most opponents. I would want to play this hand for stacks. You do not want him to get away from it on the river if a scare card hits, and you want draws to pay you off.
11-02-2008, 06:28 AM
Zel

Yeah.. I'd shove after his reraise. Since you got him last time, its a good deception of image to shove this time. A lot of people just can't believe you get it twice.

I put him on pocket kks or aces.
11-02-2008, 10:33 AM
killerkebab

KK/AA when he limped?
11-02-2008, 05:28 PM
Zel

Quote:

Originally Posted by killerkebab

KK/AA when he limped?

I should have seen that part. My fault, sorry.
Hrm.. makes me think more that he might have hit a set with low PP. I still can't lay that down since your hand can improve though..
11-03-2008, 01:39 PM
sarbox68

As already stated, watch the implied odds you're giving draws based on those stacks. Two pair are to be played fast and hard.

All that said, 2-pr for me is not an especially profitable hand. The problem is I build bigger pots and find it tougher to get away from (esp vs ranges that could include TPTK type hands) which means I'm in deeper w/ a hand that is still vulnerable to flush/straight/set vils when played to showdown.
11-03-2008, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

As already stated, watch the implied odds you're giving draws based on those stacks. Two pair are to be played fast and hard.

All that said, 2-pr for me is not an especially profitable hand. The problem is I build bigger pots and find it tougher to get away from (esp vs ranges that could include TPTK type hands) which means I'm in deeper w/ a hand that is still vulnerable to flush/straight/set vils when played to showdown.

two pair against nits is about as strong as an overpair since they'll only stack off with a set or the unlikely worse two pair

but against donks it's the nuts
11-04-2008, 03:00 AM
settecba

so sarbox and iopq? would you be willing to stack off this particular hand?
11-04-2008, 04:37 AM
XTR1000

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

I overbet the pot in both hands. By betting what you did bet with the stacks involved, you're giving all kinds of draws great implied odds.

This is bad. Overbet leading flop and turn accomplishes nothing but asking villian not to put more money in with decent one pairs. There is a threat of a deep stack having position on us, thats why it´s difficult to play deep oop and we want to proceed with caution when villian wakes up on later streets. We can deny his implied odds by reading his hand well and picking the right spots to fold to later streets aggression.

On OP:

I dont see him doing this with a Jx, those hands are way more likely to raise the flop. With reference to hand 1, you´re read is correct that he floated twice last time, he´s taking a different line this time tho, a line that looks like a set of deuces or tens, a Q9/KQ/98cc that picked up extra equity, less likely are pure Axcc floats or 44.

The high SPR in limped pots makes this a sucky spot. I´m torn between b/3b and b/c and reeval the river. If you´re comfortable with getting it in just 3b to something around 3.5 to 3.8 to set up stacks for a river shove. If not, call his bad ass minraise and be prepared for a tough decision in a lot of rivers.

edit: There more likely he his to have Jx in his range, the more willing should we be to get in asap.
11-04-2008, 01:50 PM
kb coolman

Anyone who will call you down to the river on that first hand is a total donk.

I'm re-raising this guy on the second hand to $3.20 on the turn, and I'm calling his AI every time. He has a weak stack compared to you, so you're not in any real risk here. He could easily think he has you beat with third pair at this point.
11-04-2008, 04:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by settecba

so sarbox and iopq? would you be willing to stack off this particular hand?

I :shipit: crucial
11-04-2008, 06:35 PM
sarbox68

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by settecba

so sarbox and iopq? would you be willing to stack off this particular hand?

I :shipit: crucial

I too am of the shipping disposition... and then of the swearing disposition when he flips a set of 2s.

Just a side note... I get uncomfortable when I'm on the receiving end of the flop call, turn min-raise. I see a lot of sets with that sh!t, 'cause unless villain has abs zero clue how to betsize this is their version of value betting something that smells like nutz. :shock:
11-04-2008, 06:41 PM
a500lbgorilla

Call, pot river on second hand.
11-04-2008, 09:26 PM
kb coolman

Quote:

Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

Call, pot river on second hand.

Is there a specific reason not to raise him on the turn, or is it just a matter of preference?
11-04-2008, 09:53 PM
a500lbgorilla

keep his bluffing range and range of shitty hands that get pissed as us as wide as possible
11-04-2008, 10:00 PM
kmind

I like 3betting the turn smallish because we are OOP
11-04-2008, 10:29 PM
a500lbgorilla

we close action and open action next street. 3 betting lets him call/fold worse and 4bet jam beddar. He cant bruff 4 bet, but he can still bruff shove over us on da rivar. If he's gonna call a 3 bets on the turn, he'll call our lead on the rivs.
11-04-2008, 10:35 PM
kmind

if we raise small we allow him to play a decently widened range still vs. us and if he 4bets we can call. I'm not figuring him to have just a set and am calling a shove all day. I think he bluff shoves us less frequently to a pot sized bet than a gay bet whether it be on the turn or river. I think he is often folding to a river bet so pissing him on an earlier street is better as it allows for more "FE" in his eyes with larger stacks behind. I'm talking about raising just over a minbet.
11-05-2008, 04:51 AM
settecba

Quote:

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by settecba

so sarbox and iopq? would you be willing to stack off this particular hand?

I :shipit: crucial

I too am of the shipping disposition... and then of the swearing disposition when he flips a set of 2s.

Just a side note... I get uncomfortable when I'm on the receiving end of the flop call, turn min-raise. I see a lot of sets with that sh!t, 'cause unless villain has abs zero clue how to betsize this is their version of value betting something that smells like nutz. :shock:

on the side note: I am very aware of the call flop - minraise turn line meaning a set a lot of the time(especially after a limp/call pre, not this case anyways). BUT, this villain seemed fishy and frustrated so i thought his range was way wider than a set.

Well, looks like everyone thinks a 3bet is fine. Thanks all. Thats what i did at the time. I will keep results to myself.

PS: I ran into this same villain again yesterday, and it happened again!! I got 37o from the BB, he limps and flop comes A37r. I followed a very similar line, ps bet flop, ps turn, checked river (a K), he bet small (9BB), i called and the fish showed AKs.
11-05-2008, 01:17 PM

Call/bet the river line is good too because it makes it seem like we don't have such a good hand