QQ Weird Spot

Printable View

10-28-2008, 07:51 PM
AFchung

QQ Weird Spot

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (9 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

SB ($0.84)
BB ($1.11)
UTG ($5)
UTG+1 ($3.49)
MP1 ($2.66)
Hero (MP2) ($2.03)
MP3 ($0.97)
CO ($3)
Button ($3.55)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.12, 4 folds, BB calls $0.10, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.29) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $0.10, Hero raises to $0.35, BB calls $0.25

Turn: ($0.99) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero????
10-28-2008, 08:22 PM
a500lbgorilla

I don't understand. You knew nothing about the opponent?

What's his donk/calling range for the flop?

Likely answer is to bet/fold.
10-28-2008, 08:31 PM
kb coolman

Tough to say without a good read. How many flops is this guy seeing? In any case, 2/3 pot bet is good information at this point.
10-28-2008, 10:09 PM
JKDS

does anyone else like a check, call?
10-28-2008, 11:57 PM
AFchung

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKDS

does anyone else like a check, call?

dont you mean check check?
10-29-2008, 01:20 AM
JKDS

i mean a check turn, call a less than pot sized bet on river assuming the card doesnt change anything (ie, not a Q or a card we dont wanna see).

I think the only hands that call or raise a bet on the turn will be those with a Jack. With info on villain, its possible he has a straight draw here, but without info im ignoring that.

In which case, would it be better to check turn so that we give villain a chance to bluff a weaker pair? Idk, im mixed between this option and giving up completely cuz of the flop bet...
10-29-2008, 05:17 AM
XTR1000

Thing is, beside the fact that I expect a lot of random action from 2nl players, his donk/call on flop doesnt look too strong. 66-TT are likely, 56s/45s, 57s,A6s,A4s,JT/J9 would be my guess. Given all that I think we can safely b/f the turn and reevaluate the river.
10-29-2008, 09:59 PM
kb coolman

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKDS

does anyone else like a check, call?

Not really. I think at this point, you need information. Could be an easy take down.
10-29-2008, 10:47 PM
bjsaust

Why are we trying to take it down with the best hand?

What info do you think you're getting by betting here?
10-29-2008, 11:30 PM
killerkebab

I usually bet .75 here, but for value more than anything.
10-30-2008, 01:15 AM
kb coolman

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsaust

Why are we trying to take it down with the best hand?

What info do you think you're getting by betting here?

QQ is only a marginal hand here, so I need to know where I stand. I've only got two outs to improve on the river (and one of them doesn't help if villan has the flush draw), so I'd rather get the pot right now if it's for sale.
10-30-2008, 01:39 AM
JKDS

thats the problem though isnt it?

Scenario 1: We bet x
Villain has 3 options
Folds, which he only does with hands we are currently beating and something we dont want
Calls: Something hands we beat and hands that beat us may both do. This includes flush draws, slowplayed jacks, slow overpairs, straight draws etc. This gives us no information and if he bets river we have to fold (although we may be committed depending on the bet x)
Raises: he can do this with hands we beat like strflush draws, a jack, a set, or something crazy and unreasonable that is typical of a 2nl villain. We have to fold here too, although that pot commitment thing is there.

Situation 2: We check
villain now has check or bet
check: all hands we beat, and some slowplayed hands...at 2nl this is likely to mean "i got nothing" though considering the turn check.
bet: because many 2nl villains know about the "i got nothing" sign, many will try to steal the pot on the river with grabage hands, including a pair of 6s, Ts, busted draws, and a whole bunch of other random stuff. Of course, he also does this with hands that crush us. THe thing is though, his bluffing % increased when we checked, and thus we can call a reasonable bet profitably.

This thinking is assuming no info on villain and that the 10 cent donk bet on the flop didnt mean "i have a jack i hope its good".

That is pretty much the jist of my thinking, in that betting will only be bad for us as we lose money if we're beat and lose money if we're not (by not winning more from the river bluffs).

One last thing, i agree that QQ is somewhat marginal in this particular spot, but it is also because of this fact that we dont want to be investing a large amount of money. Id rather save the big pots for situations where its a easier situation.
10-30-2008, 01:40 AM
bjsaust

Whos selling it? What hands that we have two outs against is going to fold?

Seriously, stop and think about this for a few seconds.
10-30-2008, 02:27 AM

In this situation I want to check and call river. If we bet/fold do we fold river to a donk?
10-30-2008, 04:41 AM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

In this situation I want to check and call river. If we bet/fold do we fold river to a donk?

Completely opponent dependant.
10-30-2008, 12:19 PM
killerkebab

So the argument here is that if we're beat already we're huge underdogs but there aren't many cards out there which turn a hand which we currently beat into one that beats us?

If I got your thinking right, that would imply a check turn and call river is the best plan I guess.
10-30-2008, 01:06 PM
JKDS

its a bit more complex. If we bet, we are only getting called by hands that beat us. Villain having a flush draw is unlikely since he donked then called the flop. Straight draws would only include 53 or 75 which shouldnt be in his calling range preflop (though it is 2nl). So really, the only hands left are 2pr+, KK+ and pairs lower than a J such as TT or something stupid like A6 for a pair of sixes. All the ones that we beat now, will fold to a turn bet (or should) while all those that beat us would call, bet, or raise anyway.

If we accept this as true, then the only way we get more money is if villain bluffs the river.
10-30-2008, 01:48 PM
a500lbgorilla

Quote:

Originally Posted by JKDS

its a bit more complex. If we bet, we are only getting called by hands that beat us.

Villain is incapable of calling down with 99 here?

Basically, there are probably a lot of lines which are 'right' but they all depend on who the opponent is.
10-30-2008, 01:59 PM
kmind

This seems like a pretty easy check turn behind only call smallish bets on the river vs. an unknown. Probably bet/fold a small amount on a blank river.
11-01-2008, 11:48 AM
lolpwnt

Just check turn ez and call a small river bet. If checked to bet for value.
11-01-2008, 05:52 PM
Zel

I'd opt for Check/Raise, no matter what card comes out, even KA.

I'd give him value to call with the bet, if he decided to check over. If he bets, I'd 3bet, but this might mean a shove coming.

I have a problem laying down pocket pair... so I'm not the best person to give you advice on this hand. I need to read more to learn how to play each pair effectively.