Bad cbet? 10nl, TT on 9xx FD board

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10-23-2008, 01:31 PM
Robb

Bad cbet? 10nl, TT on 9xx FD board

Villain is 28/10/0.9 over 100 hands. With this villain and this board, I think the flop cbet is bad, amiright?

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
6 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
Hero ($14.81)
UTG 1 ($2.43)
CO ($1.69)
BTN ($7.63)
SB ($10.27)
BB ($11.52)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 6 players) Hero is UTG :tc: :ts:
Hero raises to $0.35, UTG 1 calls $0.35, 3 folds, BB calls $0.25

Flop: :6s: :9s: :2d: ($1.10, 3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.10, UTG 1 folds, BB calls $1.10

Turn: :3s: ($3.30, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: :8s: ($3.30, 2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

[Results Hidden]
10-23-2008, 01:42 PM
spoonitnow

I deleted my initial reply to this because I'd probably get banned.

With that in mind, c-betting the flop is fine.
10-23-2008, 01:49 PM
Muzzard

Give me one or more good reasons why bettig this flop is neither good or standard.
10-23-2008, 02:09 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Give me one or more good reasons why bettig this flop is neither good or standard.

He's such a station on a semi-drawy board that it seems a cbet just helps him fold about half his range of hands - all ones that are beaten. You get no information from cbetting, and help him play more correctly.

That was my thinking, but maybe I should just standard cbet this muzz? His range is wide enough that this is value town, even though all the relevant draws are in his range? Dunno, that's why I posted it. I'm trying to get a handle on board texture where it's inadvisable to cbet overpairs.
10-23-2008, 02:24 PM
Muzzard

We bet because

a) We want to price draws
b) We want to bet to protect
c) Get value from hands we beat

We have an over pair on a FD board, the fact you didnt cbet or bet the turn or river means u missed a whole lot of value. I'd like to add that Ts is probably good on the river.
10-23-2008, 02:26 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

We bet because

a) We want to price draws
b) We want to bet to protect
c) Get value from hands we beat

We have an over pair on a FD board, the fact you didnt cbet or bet the turn or river means u missed a whole lot of value. I'd like to add that Ts is probably good on the river.

What kind of 9xx board would you NOT value bet with TT? Or what kind of villain? Or is this auto-value for you?
10-23-2008, 02:30 PM
deacon_bluez

I think he'll call with lots of hands that you beat. I don't like the PSB though; more like 2/3 is what I would do on this board.

I usually cbet unless the board is very drawy. If you don't, it gets harder to cbet other times when you miss the flop.
10-23-2008, 02:31 PM
Muzzard

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

We bet because

a) We want to price draws
b) We want to bet to protect
c) Get value from hands we beat

We have an over pair on a FD board, the fact you didnt cbet or bet the turn or river means u missed a whole lot of value. I'd like to add that Ts is probably good on the river.

What kind of 9xx board would you NOT value bet with TT? Or what kind of villain? Or is this auto-value for you?

This is auto value, if I get c/r or he calls and leads turn. Then I'll have to engage brain more.

Why are you not cbeting, trying to trap or something. I just totally don't get it.
10-23-2008, 02:56 PM
d0zer

Overpair + loose villain + drawy board = value :!: :?:

I also 1/3 pot the river.
10-23-2008, 03:03 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Muzzard

Why are you not cbeting, trying to trap or something. I just totally don't get it.

I'm working on a huge leak of playing too agro early and trapping myself. So I'm trying to learn restraint/pot control etc.

But I've plugged most of my horrible spewtard lines, and was moving down the list toward less total donkness. I was just wondering about playing med pp's that end up as overpairs on small, drawy boards. If it's auto-cbet, cool. We'll all return to normal and go overthink something else.

:P
10-23-2008, 03:11 PM
bikes

... I agree with Muzzard and Spoon.
10-23-2008, 03:18 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

I deleted my initial reply to this because I'd probably get banned.

With that in mind, c-betting the flop is fine.

I'd like to know what it was. I freakin' missed it.

Damn.
10-23-2008, 03:22 PM
bikes

BTW there is nothing to trap if you

Cbet the flop
B/F the turn
Check behind the river.
10-23-2008, 03:29 PM
Stacks

The fact that he is a calling station only adds to the fact that you should be c-betting this flop. Sure he will be calling with the majority of his draws, but he will also be calling with weaker pairs, whiffed overs, etc. You are ahead here a good majority of the time, therefore bet for the reasons muzzard stated. Not only do you make him pay for the draw, you get value from his worse hands, while "protecting" your hand.

Fwiw, I'm c-betting nearly all of my made hands and strong draws against this type of a villain. I'm probably checking behind and taking a free card with my whiffed overs, and weak draws (because he will still pay you when you hit your weak draw on later streets).
10-23-2008, 04:29 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by XxStacksxX

The fact that he is a calling station only adds to the fact that you should be c-betting this flop. Sure he will be calling with the majority of his draws, but he will also be calling with weaker pairs, whiffed overs, etc. You are ahead here a good majority of the time, therefore bet for the reasons muzzard stated. Not only do you make him pay for the draw, you get value from his worse hands, while "protecting" your hand.

Fwiw, I'm c-betting nearly all of my made hands and strong draws against this type of a villain. I'm probably checking behind and taking a free card with my whiffed overs, and weak draws (because he will still pay you when you hit your weak draw on later streets).

thx
10-23-2008, 05:13 PM
bigspenda73

river looks like ez thin value as well
10-24-2008, 03:29 AM
Biglines

Is there anything wrong with betting each street here?