QKo FTW!

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10-20-2008, 04:48 PM
oskar

QKo FTW!

HH fixed.
kind of. For all practical purposes it is close enough.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.04 BB (10 handed) - Party-Poker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG+1 ~$3
Hero ~$5
CO ~$5

approx 7-handed (people sitting out)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
UTG+1 raises $0.12, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.12, 1 fold, CO calls $0.12, 5 folds

Flop: ($0.42) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets $0.16, Hero calls $0.16, CO raises $0.48, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.32

Turn: ($1.54) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.88, Hero calls $0.88

River: ($3.30) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO checks

Total pot: $3.30

I'm calling preflop because I'm pretty sure I'm slightly ahead of his range and he's been playing weak enough that I'm confident I can take it down a fair amount of times if we both don't connect with the flop.
On the flop I flat call because of the guy behind me. I know the donk c-bet doesn't necessarily mean he has any part of it, but I don't want to scare the SB away. I see the flushdraw, but I'm more concerned with not isolating hands that crush me.
I don't like to see the SB raise at all, and at this point I think it would have been wiser to just raise it myself, but I'm really not so sure what I accomplish with this.
From there on I feel like I'm at best breaking even with the calls.
I don't want to give too tight of a range, but I'm guessing AK (5NL donks don't necessarily understand the concept of 3-betting PF), KJ, KT, JJ, QQ - although unlikely... maybe a set or some tricky play with a spade draw - again, unlikely since he would get a great price to just call, and the turn bet doesn't make any sense. So I'm mainly concerned with Kx, AK being the most likely, but I think with the price I'm getting I pretty much have to call it down.
On the river I'm not calling much.

All in all I think I played this pretty terrible, but I can't exactly put my finger on it.
10-20-2008, 04:58 PM
AFchung

don't call an UTG preflop raise with KQo... i wouldn't even do it with AJs
10-20-2008, 05:11 PM
oskar

I got position on him; he opens a lot for 3xBB; I know he plays weak/passive... I can't fold.
10-20-2008, 05:12 PM
AdamThePirate

Re: QKo FTW!

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

All in all I think I played this pretty terrible, but I can't exactly put my finger on it.

You called his raise with KQo. I wouldn't have even called it with AQ. UTG is a bad position. KQo is not a great hand, and in UTG it's really quite weak IMO.

Look at what you have, and think "ok, if i hit a king or a queen, am i still ahead of him? what is he raising with?" Yes the players at these stakes SUCK, and will call you down with air a lot of the time, but from my experience, if they PFR then they usually have a legitimate hand.

Remember, you can very rarely use fancy plays, or even bluff people at $2/4/5 NL, so just stick to awesome starting hands, and play aggressive when you hit your set/TPTK etc.
10-20-2008, 05:17 PM
AFchung

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

I got position on him; he opens a lot for 3xBB; I know he plays weak/passive... I can't fold.

with KQ he might have you outkicked (AK AQ) and when you guys both hit top pair, you're going to be in a lot of trouble. also what happens when other players call his raise? KQo stops looking like a good hand multiway

also since you're in EP, you would've wasted some chips if someone else 3bets him
10-20-2008, 05:20 PM
AdamThePirate

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

I got position on him; he opens a lot for 3xBB; I know he plays weak/passive... I can't fold.

Sorry, you have position on someone who raises from MP when you are UTG?
10-20-2008, 05:25 PM
oskar

I said it in the post... the converter messed up... it got it right after the flop, and I get confused editing this mess. I didn't think that preflop would be such a big deal to you guys.

He was UTG+1 I think, I was MP2, and the SB was actually at the CO.
10-20-2008, 05:28 PM
AdamThePirate

Wondered why it didn't quite read right, haha. Well, personally I still wouldn't have called - but hey, that's just how I play. I'm super tight 12/9 and I play at $2nl, at least until i grind it up to $100 (only $14 left to go! woo)
10-20-2008, 05:45 PM
AFchung

Quote:

I said it in the post... the converter messed up... it got it right after the flop, and I get confused editing this mess. I didn't think that preflop would be such a big deal to you guys.

playing quality hands PF puts us in less marginal situations and helps make choices a lot easier
10-20-2008, 05:55 PM
sarbox68

Dude... I'm really f-in confused here... pls to fix the HH post k thanks... :)

So.. if MP2 is UTG, then u are on the Button and SB is in MP... did I get that right?

But that doesn't make any sense on the Turn, where HH shows you checking & SB betting... don't you have position on SB? .... sooooo who the f-k is who???
10-20-2008, 06:01 PM
oskar

alright...
Fixed it.
10-20-2008, 06:18 PM
sarbox68

k... like that much better :)

1. You have bad relative position to the PFR... too many people to act behind you to ensure you'll have position later on.
2. KQo isn't that strong. What are you hoping to hit? 2pr? TP + draw? TPTK? From what I remember of your original post (w/ stack sizes), your SPR is pretty nasty for a TPTK hand, so how deep are you going to be willing to go with just one pair?
3. Once I get squozed on the flop, I'm prolly outtie. You think he's doing that with a draw only? You don't buy much of anything by calling it, and then he fires again at you on blank Turn. I'm def done on this one. Unless CO is retarded (seems know about the concept of an IP squeeze...), he's not doing this with KJ or lower... So best you got IMO is splitting against another KQ or losing AK, 22,33 or a smooth called AA-KK (the latter obv a lot less likely...)
4. I don't remember the stack sizes, but I gotta believe calling that Turn bet gets you over the committment threshold, so you're setting yourself up for a possibly nasty River decision unimproved. As it is, you got lucky and he checked thru (maybe he put you on 45s looking for a check-raise...) and got to see SD.

Moral of the story.... cold-calling KQo vs an UTG raiser and ending up OOP w/ TPGK sucks ass.... :shock:
10-20-2008, 06:31 PM
oskar

I was probabably too fixed on the initial raiser. I was definitely ahead of his range, plus getting 1,5 to 1 on a call and him playing fairly weak, I'm confinednt I can beat those odds even if I played this blind.
The problem are really the players behind me.

I think you're spot on after the flop. Some people do this with draws and TPNK, but I had no such read on this particular villain.

I guess being up 6 buy-ins for the session influenced my decition... felt a bit too invincible.
10-21-2008, 03:41 AM
bigteif

I would Reraise the flop here and if he's playing loose passive and he raises UTG what does that tell you. A passive player playing aggressive usually means a strong hand. If you think you have him beat I would reraise flop cause you don't want spade draws calling behind you and you want the CO to fold so that you have position. I would probably fold the turn.
10-21-2008, 09:00 AM
oskar

HU I would definitely raise him, but with one guy behind me I think this is a little different. I was kind of hoping he would flat call, in which case I was going to v-bet turn and river. I don't think the flat call was wrong, but I could have folded to the squeeze, and definitely on the turn.
I don't think I can make a raise to fold out spade draws on the flop. I would end up isolating mostly hands that have me crushed. I just have to let them draw.
10-21-2008, 02:34 PM

I call the raise if KQ is suited because of position and I wouldn't mind a multiway pot
but getting squeezed on the flop hurts
10-21-2008, 03:06 PM
bigteif

Quote:

Originally Posted by oskar

HU I would definitely raise him, but with one guy behind me I think this is a little different. I was kind of hoping he would flat call, in which case I was going to v-bet turn and river. I don't think the flat call was wrong, but I could have folded to the squeeze, and definitely on the turn.
I don't think I can make a raise to fold out spade draws on the flop. I would end up isolating mostly hands that have me crushed. I just have to let them draw.

Ya I guess your right but i think top pair hands and flush draws will call you and if the CO folds you have position.
10-21-2008, 03:44 PM
cardsman1992

Calling with KQo in your position sucks, regardless if you think you are ahead of his range. You still have people to act behind you.

Fold PF>>>>>>>>>>>>3betting PF>>calling PF

Calling the raise from CO on the flop is pure spew.

I didn't read the other responses but I think it's pretty easy to put your finger on how this is played badly.

You sought a target, failed to get it HU, and when the target changed you failed to adjust properly.