ISF theorem application

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10-16-2008, 08:54 PM

ISF theorem application

I don't really have reads on the opponent, but he doesn't seem fishy. But I'm running 19/15 this session so he may or may not know/care since this is NL25

I limp on the button because button = instant profitz
After his flop bet I think he has Axs because he'd raise AQ/AK and most likely down to AT (unless my first impression that he wasn't fishy was incorrect) so his range is A9-, 88, 97
my range is a lot of suited connectors and Ax type of hands and 88
his subsequent bets didn't change that range

but the river card hit my range because I could have made two pair or a straight
but his range, although I said A9- is heavily weighed towards lower aces, because he's more and more likely to raise PF with higher aces

If I called I would probably chop, and if I raise he will call my raise with no less than two pair
I'm risking 6 dollars to win 4.5 in additional money from not having to chop

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($10)
UTG ($26.35)
UTG+1 ($5.35)
MP1 ($15.85)
MP2 ($5)
MP3 ($41.05)
CO ($6.20)
Hero (Button) ($31.85)
SB ($25)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
4 folds, MP3 calls $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, 1 fold, BB checks

Flop: ($0.85) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP3 bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, 1 fold

Turn: ($2.35) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP3 bets $1.25, Hero calls $1.25

River: ($4.85) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
MP3 bets $2.50, Hero raises to $8.50
10-23-2008, 11:39 PM
revolvingiris

With no reads how do you know he wouldnt limp those?

hes getting 1:2.5 on the call. He can call this and be right 50% of the time and still make a profit.
10-23-2008, 11:42 PM
spoonitnow

Yeah I didn't even read half the shit you posted but both of you have a pretty similar range on the river so it's probably not.
10-23-2008, 11:44 PM
JinxT4

How do you figure you're chopping? Looks like you're value-towning yourself/spewing.
10-23-2008, 11:51 PM
spoonitnow

Actually it depends on which version you're talking about I guess.
10-24-2008, 12:00 AM
wellrounded08

Sticky.
10-24-2008, 12:01 AM
bigteif

Quote:

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

Sticky.

Put this in a book
10-24-2008, 12:54 AM
revolvingiris

(Hypothetically) If hero raised PF, raised turn and villain called. Then villain check fold the river, would that then be considered ISF?
Isnt the issue that both seem fairly weak? But if Hero seemed much stronger. Repping the board would be better?
10-24-2008, 05:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

How do you figure you're chopping? Looks like you're value-towning yourself/spewing.

Because I narrowed his range down to Axs
10-24-2008, 06:11 AM
JinxT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

How do you figure you're chopping? Looks like you're value-towning yourself/spewing.

Because I narrowed his range down to Axs

How? He could just as easily have AJ. What lets you "narrow it down to Axs"? Regardless, even if he has 1 of the Ax hands that you're chopping with, I don't see him folding.

I didn't really wanna go through all of the things that I disagreed with in your post, but:

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

my range is a lot of suited connectors and Ax type of hands and 88
his subsequent bets didn't change that range

but the river card hit my range because I could have made two pair or a straight

He's probably not thinking about your range. You even said he was fishy, which supports my statement further.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I limp on the button because button = instant profitz

I'm not sure where you learned this, but shouldn't you be limping with hands that can actually hit big, like SCs or maybe even connected cards? What are you hoping to flop here? 55x (which you probably won't get much action on anyways)?

Also, not sure how your hand applies to "ISF Theorem", b/c your range isn't ahead of your opponent's. :?

Side note: I know I suck & all, but a lot of your thinking just seems flawed to me (not trying to be mean).
10-24-2008, 06:57 AM

I'm hoping to flop 234 obv
but I said he didn't seem to be fishy which is why I would make this bet because he has a difficult time calling me

I am applying ISF theorem because I'm betting when his range is weak, and I'm taking the "slow played set" line

of course I could be way out of line
10-24-2008, 07:21 AM
JinxT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I'm hoping to flop 234 obv

Seems kinda strange to me that you'd want to play a hand where the best flop you hope for only gives you the 2nd nuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

but I said he didn't seem to be fishy which is why I would make this bet because he has a difficult time calling me

Oh, I misread & thought you said he seemed fishy. Either way, the fact that he limped when folded to would make me assume that he's probably fishy & won't have a difficult time calling you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I am applying ISF theorem because I'm betting when his range is weak, and I'm taking the "slow played set" line

Wouldn't you probably raise the turn with a "slow-played set"? Would you really wait until to the river to try to get all the money in? Your range isn't ahead of your opponents after calling 2 streets imo.
10-24-2008, 07:50 AM
oskar

This all seems plenty strange to me. Wouldn't you just raise/fold PF to get initiative? You might be slightly behind his limping range but you get to play in position, and you might take out the blinds.
10-24-2008, 10:01 AM
cardsman1992

Raise PF plz.
10-24-2008, 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JinxT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I'm hoping to flop 234 obv

Seems kinda strange to me that you'd want to play a hand where the best flop you hope for only gives you the 2nd nuts.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

but I said he didn't seem to be fishy which is why I would make this bet because he has a difficult time calling me

Oh, I misread & thought you said he seemed fishy. Either way, the fact that he limped when folded to would make me assume that he's probably fishy & won't have a difficult time calling you.

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

I am applying ISF theorem because I'm betting when his range is weak, and I'm taking the "slow played set" line

Wouldn't you probably raise the turn with a "slow-played set"? Would you really wait until to the river to try to get all the money in? Your range isn't ahead of your opponents after calling 2 streets imo.

No, the best flop is AA5 obv. But I agree with the comments on the previous streets (raise pf, fold before the river, etc.)

I still wonder if my river bet is correct here
of course my line doesn't have to make sense if my opponent doesn't look at whether my line makes sense, only whether he feels he's beat with just one pair
10-25-2008, 04:03 AM
JinxT4

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

No, the best flop is AA5 obv.

Then why did you say that you wanted 234 to flop when I asked what you were hoping to flop? Even on AA5 flop, you probably aren't gonna get much action, unless villain has the case A. Idk, maybe I'm wrong about all this.
10-25-2008, 04:05 AM

because there are more combinations of 234 flops, ldo
anyway, even if we flop two pair we're likely to get action, where if we flop two pair with 72o we're way less likely to get action

also, sometimes an ace will be good enough to win a small limped pot, especially in position
I'm not saying I'm 100% correct, but I'd have to see some statistics or some more convincing arguments than "what are you hoping to flop"