TPTK gets shoved on....wtf does he have

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10-09-2008, 09:40 PM
thizzSantaCruz

TPTK gets shoved on....wtf does he have

Villain is 31/20 3 bets 15%, he is 8 tabling and we've been going at it a little bit. I'm running 27/23 3 betting and double barreling a ton. Just recently I bet/3 bet in a pot that I raised and he had called in position preflop. He tanked and folded to the 3 bet.

hold'em, $2.00 BB (5 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

Button ($200)
SB ($89.95)
BB ($238.55)
Hero (UTG) ($235.15)
MP ($256)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif
Hero raises to $7, MP calls $7, 3 folds

Flop: ($17) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $13, MP calls $13

Turn: ($43) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $31, MP raises to $236 (All-In)

[
10-09-2008, 10:09 PM
al yell

slow played set?
regardless, doesn't strike me as a bluff. and based on history he may be a bit fed up - or think that you think he's fed up - and is trying to appear spewy. ??
10-10-2008, 12:10 AM
Genitruc

omg i call so fast but i might suck
10-10-2008, 12:32 AM
griffey24

hmm... I'd probably fold this.. but I might suck :)

I mean, if we're not beat I'd imagine this is either a straight draw +FD or Ax spades.
10-10-2008, 12:36 AM
JL

Looks like a combo draw like T9/56/Ax of spades.

Not sure what I do here. These types of players almost never pull this type of line against me.
Usually, it's some donk who does this, and I snap call.

edit: this was my 666th post. :twisted:
10-10-2008, 12:45 AM
mcatdog

I don't think he has Ax of spades.
10-10-2008, 01:11 AM
Galapogos

This seems like an odd line to take for value. What kind of flop did you b3b him on earlier?
10-10-2008, 01:12 AM
will641

given history there is really no reason to believe this guy would slow play a set. that being said, i would probably level myself in the moment and then hate myself for calling.

hate to be a spoiler, but you left the total pot in, so you must've called, and probably lost :wink: .
10-10-2008, 02:40 AM
minSim

I think with history I call.
10-10-2008, 08:07 AM
benny999

good point about history...he's likelier to raise the flop with >AK. and the 2 doesn't help him usually...a draw is likely enough to call imo. like 54ss or T9s.
10-10-2008, 08:43 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

I don't think he has Ax of spades.

ooops.. sorry :)

Ok yah that makes me want to fold even more now.
10-10-2008, 08:52 AM
Ash256

Isn't that flop the kinda flop where the polar ends of his range would make their move?
10-10-2008, 09:57 AM
Silly String

In my humble opinion:
You're UTG so you have a limited range. He is likely to expect you to be on that exact hand or another 1 pair hand. His overbet push is probably intended to look bluffy.
I think he wants you to think he turned a combo draw. Although, I don't think he thinks he has fold equity by pushing vs your range with your history, so he must be looking to get paid. If he really turned a combo draw he'd call with position. Therefore I think he's likely on 2 pair or possibly a set b/c he may not 3bet your UTG raises w/ mid PPs.
10-10-2008, 02:40 PM
JL

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcatdog

I don't think he has Ax of spades.

I just realized why you said this. :oops:
10-10-2008, 03:45 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

I call and feel pretty good about it.
10-10-2008, 08:56 PM
thizzSantaCruz

I called and felt bad when villain table 7d2d
10-10-2008, 10:16 PM
IowaSkinsFan

I call and feel great about it tbh
10-10-2008, 10:35 PM
griffey24

To those that want to call, are you more likely to fold if the turn is a 2h or does the second FD not make a difference?
10-11-2008, 01:32 AM
Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by griffey24

To those that want to call, are you more likely to fold if the turn is a 2h or does the second FD not make a difference?

I might fold then. I was sure by his line the turn helped him somehow, but I figured it was more in the extra outs sense. I don't see why he'd slowplay a monster on that flop. Even if the turn didn't bring the second FD I'd have a hard time seeing how a deuce could help him though. I guess it'd all depend a lot more on the little things you can't get across in a thread to help with my decision.
10-11-2008, 05:02 AM
Genitruc

when he shoves I accept the fact that he might have 5-outered me (or fewer) and expect to be getting it in as a 75-25 fav a loooooot of the time
10-11-2008, 06:40 AM
mixchange

This is so read dependent. I think we're good here a fair amount, but I don't mind folding and see if villain makes a similar play again. If he's making a big bluff and gets away with it, he's likely to pull it again on us. Then we can call and just take his money. I have seen this line when we're beat when villains (donkish, I mean this shove is donkish) don't want to deal with 2FD's and a str8 draw out and just want to get it in.
10-11-2008, 07:54 AM
bjsaust

I normally spend so time thinking about it in a spot like this that I get sat out and folded and convince myself that was probably the best thing.
10-11-2008, 12:57 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by mixchange

This is so read dependent.

So how are we supposed get these reads we don't have?
10-12-2008, 04:35 AM
mixchange

I misspoke I guess. Biased cuz I talked about this hand with him before Thiz posted it. All I mean by read dependent is a lot of stuff we don't have here, like villain's history of bet sizing in hands. The way someone has bet their hands means everything to me, sizing wize, but we never really get sizing assments on "unrelated" hands from villains which to me is super pertinent, more than villain is 23952/kjsknfX/X etc.