Who wants to learn about 3-betting?
Here's another one I keep getting asked about, so I'm going to break this down as simple as it can get with a chunk of something I've written up for a coaching session later. When facing a 3-bet, your opponents will have one of three characteristics, and the first one of those characteristics will never happen, so you've only got to deal with the last two. Here are the three possible characteristics:
1. They play optimally and you can never get an edge no matter how you play.
2. They fold too much.
3. They don't fold enough.
The adjustment for #2 is that you 3-bet bluff more and/or 3-bet for value less.
The adjustment for #3 is that you 3-bet bluff less and/or 3-bet for value more.
Here's an example for #2. Villain is 14/12 with a 30% attempt to steal. Villain opens for 4x in the button, and we 3-bet to 12x in the SB with 72o. We're betting 11.5bb to win 5.5bb, so if Villain folds more than 11.5/(5.5+11.5) = 67.6% of the time then we immediately profit as long as we aren't -EV post-flop (which we can always prevent theoretically by always check/folding post-flop). So Villain has to be continuing with more than 32.4% of his opening range, which is around 10% of all hands. To give you an idea of how unlikely this would be, the range {77+, AJo+, ATs+, KJo+, KJs+} is exactly 10% of starting hands.
Here's an example for #3. Villain is a 14/12 who opens UTG with {AQ+, 66+}, and will continue to a 3-bet with {AQ+, 99+}. A 3-bet bluff is no longer going to be profitable by itself, but we can open up our value range a bit with hands that perform well against {AQ+, 99+}. Our 3-betting range becomes something like {AK, JJ+}.
At our full ring games, scenario #2 happens a LOT more than scenario #3.
In our 6-max games, scenario #3 tends to happen a LOT more than scenario #2.
Re: Who wants to learn about 3-betting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. They play optimally and you can never get an edge no matter how you play.
2. They fold too much.
3. They don't fold enough.
The adjustment for #2 is that you 3-bet bluff more and/or 3-bet for value less.
The adjustment for #3 is that you 3-bet bluff less and/or 3-bet for value more.
The scary thing is, this should be obvious to anyone giving 3-bet ranges even a bit of thought. Guys, dont hang around waiting for Spoon to give you answers you can mindlessly follow. Think these things through and work stuff out.
Re: Who wants to learn about 3-betting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. They play optimally and you can never get an edge no matter how you play.
2. They fold too much.
3. They don't fold enough.
.
if a "2. They fold too much." decided to 4-bet, then you gotta start thinking KK+. You also need to relate these categories to their pre-flop ranges - a 9-2 nit is never a "3. They don't fold enough" cos they always have QQ+/AK....
a 26-24 is unlikely to "2. They fold too much"
and if you're asking about 3-betting, you should also ask which category you fit into. And then think about 3-betting ranges and 4-betting. Position is so closely related to 3-betting action that separating the two is asking for trouble.
Re: Who wants to learn about 3-betting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bjsaust
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. They play optimally and you can never get an edge no matter how you play.
2. They fold too much.
3. They don't fold enough.
The adjustment for #2 is that you 3-bet bluff more and/or 3-bet for value less.
The adjustment for #3 is that you 3-bet bluff less and/or 3-bet for value more.
The scary thing is, this should be obvious to anyone giving 3-bet ranges even a bit of thought. Guys, dont hang around waiting for Spoon to give you answers you can mindlessly follow. Think these things through and work stuff out.
Ding ding ding, we have a winner.
Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
1. They play optimally and you can never get an edge no matter how you play.
2. They fold too much.
3. They don't fold enough.
.
if a "2. They fold too much." decided to 4-bet, then you gotta start thinking KK+. You also need to relate these categories to their pre-flop ranges - a 9-2 nit is never a "3. They don't fold enough" cos they always have QQ+/AK....
a 26-24 is unlikely to "2. They fold too much"
and if you're asking about 3-betting, you should also ask which category you fit into. And then think about 3-betting ranges and 4-betting. Position is so closely related to 3-betting action that separating the two is asking for trouble.
Actually you would be surprised. A player's VP$IP/PFR is not often that telling of how they handle 3-bets.
Re: Who wants to learn about 3-betting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Actually you would be surprised. A player's VP$IP/PFR is not often that telling of how they handle 3-bets.
not what i was talking about. The three categories i refer to are the ones you listed = how players respond to 3-bets.
Re: Who wants to learn about 3-betting?
Quote:
Originally Posted by daven
Quote:
Originally Posted by spoonitnow
Actually you would be surprised. A player's VP$IP/PFR is not often that telling of how they handle 3-bets.
not what i was talking about. The three categories i refer to are the ones you listed = how players respond to 3-bets.
To clarify what I mean, a 26/24 at say full ring is likely to fold so much that a 3-bet bluff is profitable while also having a wide enough calling range that we can 3-bet more hands for value than we generally would.