NL10 two hands for review

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09-27-2008, 02:55 AM

NL10 two hands for review

Hand 1: Villain is 23/10/3.6
Is the river way too thin? I thought his small bet is either a blocking bet or a "I have the nuts please call" bet
After his 3-bet I found out it was the latter

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($14.80)
UTG ($11.70)
UTG+1 ($2.25)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($10)
MP3 ($5.45)
Hero (CO) ($20.60)
Button ($14)
SB ($2.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.65) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.90, MP1 calls $0.90

River: ($3.45) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.90, MP1 raises to $5, Hero folds

Total pot: $7.25 | Rake: $0.70

Hand 2:
All-in villain is an unknown
The fish who folded is 72/20/0.8
Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.35)
Button ($4.75)
Hero (SB) ($11.45)
BB ($5)
UTG ($1.85)
UTG+1 ($11.20)
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($1.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
4 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.30) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.90) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.60, BB calls $0.60, CO raises to $2.05 (All-In), Hero calls $1.45, BB calls $1.45

River: ($7.05) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $3, 1 fold

Total pot: $7.05 | Rake: $0.70
09-27-2008, 03:13 AM

Holy hell, I've been paying 10% rake at NL10?

... I assumed Tilt was the same as Stars with 5% rake
but obviously not if you look at the rake in my hands
09-27-2008, 10:13 AM
wellrounded08

Slowplayed a set.... Tisk tisk tisk.
09-27-2008, 05:28 PM
oskar

hand 1 - raise about pot on the flop, bet slight under pot on the turn and the river will suck much less. Against a player like this - even if this was the first hand you played against him from the way he bet, you should know that he has no idea what he's doing. I would definitely just flat call the river. In fact I would just flat call against most players. Not because I think I'm behind but because there there is very little that would call a value raise here.
Second hand I would check-call all the way, and certainly not continue betting with 2 callers. It certainly depends on the opponents and how much risk/variance you are willing to take with your game.
09-27-2008, 06:40 PM
spoonitnow

Hand 1: Raise flop. If he doesn't have enough to call here then he's not going to have enough to call on the turn unless he draws out on you.

Hand 2: Be careful with building a big pot here.
09-27-2008, 07:14 PM
Fnord

It's almost better to play the PS 1c/2c $5 max until you have the roll for 25NL.
09-27-2008, 07:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

It's almost better to play the PS 1c/2c $5 max until you have the roll for 25NL.

I just started playing NL25 even though I only have 20 buyins
09-27-2008, 07:22 PM
Fnord

Can you re-buy out of pocket?

Then again, I play with a bankroll of a couple hundred buy-ins because I'm such a nit...
09-27-2008, 07:46 PM
OhBollocks

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

It's almost better to play the PS 1c/2c $5 max until you have the roll for 25NL.

I just started playing NL25 even though I only have 20 buyins

Ya, you were on one of my tables for about 20mins. Did well for a nit too :wink:

Hand 2, I wouldnt be leading the turn here
09-27-2008, 07:51 PM
Ragnar4

Re: NL10 two hands for review

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Hand 1: Villain is 23/10/3.6
Is the river way too thin? I thought his small bet is either a blocking bet or a "I have the nuts please call" bet
After his 3-bet I found out it was the latter

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

BB ($14.80)
UTG ($11.70)
UTG+1 ($2.25)
MP1 ($10)
MP2 ($10)
MP3 ($5.45)
Hero (CO) ($20.60)
Button ($14)
SB ($2.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.45, 3 folds, MP1 calls $0.35

Flop: ($1.05) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.30, Hero calls $0.30

Turn: ($1.65) 10http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP1 checks, Hero bets $0.90, MP1 calls $0.90

River: ($3.45) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP1 bets $0.40, Hero raises to $1.90, MP1 raises to $5, Hero folds

Total pot: $7.25 | Rake: $0.70

Hand 2:
All-in villain is an unknown
The fish who folded is 72/20/0.8
Full Tilt Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO ($2.35)
Button ($4.75)
Hero (SB) ($11.45)
BB ($5)
UTG ($1.85)
UTG+1 ($11.20)
MP1 ($2)
MP2 ($1.85)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
4 folds, CO calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, BB checks

Flop: ($0.30) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.20, BB calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20

Turn: ($0.90) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.60, BB calls $0.60, CO raises to $2.05 (All-In), Hero calls $1.45, BB calls $1.45

River: ($7.05) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players, 1 all-in)
Hero bets $3, 1 fold

Total pot: $7.05 | Rake: $0.70

Hand one.

Raising to a dollar on the flop allows you to get a WHOLE lot more money in on the turn, and may get you AI, and if it doesn't it allows you to make an easy call, instead of what I think "as played" is a good fold.

I doubt that top pair worst kicker is good even against a shorty with an overshove. How did that treat you?
09-27-2008, 08:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Can you re-buy out of pocket?

Then again, I play with a bankroll of a couple hundred buy-ins because I'm such a nit...

If I drop a few buy-ins I'll start short-stacking 50BB to reduce variance
then I'll have "44" buy-ins
09-27-2008, 08:52 PM
wellrounded08

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Can you re-buy out of pocket?

Then again, I play with a bankroll of a couple hundred buy-ins because I'm such a nit...

If I drop a few buy-ins I'll start short-stacking 50BB to reduce variance
then I'll have "44" buy-ins

That's weird.

Why don't you just go in at 30BI's and leave at 25 or something.... why rush into it w/ 20 only to try and halfstack at 15? <<<Actual Question.
09-27-2008, 09:08 PM

You want to buy a piece of me?
09-27-2008, 09:12 PM
wellrounded08

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

You want to buy a piece of me?

I'll just assume that was a joke, and we'll leave it at that.
09-27-2008, 09:12 PM
spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Can you re-buy out of pocket?

Then again, I play with a bankroll of a couple hundred buy-ins because I'm such a nit...

If I drop a few buy-ins I'll start short-stacking 50BB to reduce variance
then I'll have "44" buy-ins

That's weird.

Why don't you just go in at 30BI's and leave at 25 or something.... why rush into it w/ 20 only to try and halfstack at 15? <<<Actual Question.

Because that would require more patience.
09-27-2008, 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by wellrounded08

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Can you re-buy out of pocket?

Then again, I play with a bankroll of a couple hundred buy-ins because I'm such a nit...

If I drop a few buy-ins I'll start short-stacking 50BB to reduce variance
then I'll have "44" buy-ins

That's weird.

Why don't you just go in at 30BI's and leave at 25 or something.... why rush into it w/ 20 only to try and halfstack at 15? <<<Actual Question.

Because that would require more patience.

No, because I dislike paying 10% rake WITHOUT free drinks
srsly retarded
09-27-2008, 10:19 PM
OhBollocks

10% rake is almost ok @ $10NL when ur clearing a bonus as it halves the release time. After that, 10% for online poker is for donaters and sleepwalkers only.
09-27-2008, 10:43 PM
wellrounded08

wait wait... what does that have to do w/ waiting 'till you have more BI's before moving up?
Again, I really am asking. I mean, maybe there is an answer I 'm just not getting.
09-27-2008, 10:47 PM
spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

No, because I dislike paying 10% rake WITHOUT free drinks
srsly retarded

Just be careful to not turn it into a scapegoat for avoiding good bankroll management.

Full Tilt's 10nl has a rake of about 10%. I thought that was common knowledge or I would have made it more widely known. That's one of the reasons I prefer players start on PokerStars until 25nl/$650, then move to Full Tilt for the bonus and such, then back to PokerStars when they can make Supernova easily if they have the right volume and whatnot. There are many other reasons, but this isn't really the place for it.
09-28-2008, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

No, because I dislike paying 10% rake WITHOUT free drinks
srsly retarded

Just be careful to not turn it into a scapegoat for avoiding good bankroll management.

Full Tilt's 10nl has a rake of about 10%. I thought that was common knowledge or I would have made it more widely known. That's one of the reasons I prefer players start on PokerStars until 25nl/$650, then move to Full Tilt for the bonus and such, then back to PokerStars when they can make Supernova easily if they have the right volume and whatnot. There are many other reasons, but this isn't really the place for it.

Well, your winrate decreases the buyins you need to go to a certain level. I need to do the calculations though.
09-28-2008, 12:17 AM
spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

No, because I dislike paying 10% rake WITHOUT free drinks
srsly retarded

Just be careful to not turn it into a scapegoat for avoiding good bankroll management.

Full Tilt's 10nl has a rake of about 10%. I thought that was common knowledge or I would have made it more widely known. That's one of the reasons I prefer players start on PokerStars until 25nl/$650, then move to Full Tilt for the bonus and such, then back to PokerStars when they can make Supernova easily if they have the right volume and whatnot. There are many other reasons, but this isn't really the place for it.

Well, your winrate decreases the buyins you need to go to a certain level. I need to do the calculations though.

Just to clarify for anyone who reads this and doesn't understand what was just said, if you want to maintain the same risk of ruin assuming your standard deviation stays the same, if your win-rate goes down then the $ you need to play at that level goes up, and vice-versa.
09-28-2008, 03:46 AM

OK, I did some calculations

I took my NL10/PL10 winrate over 20K hands, I added half of the rake to increase my winrate to what it would have been if I had played on stars
then I multiplied my win rate and standard deviation by 2.5
I used BB/100 and std. deviation/100 figures instead of per hour, but I think as long as both are correct it shouldn't matter

I put those figures into an online risk of ruin calculator at http://www.poker-tools-online.com/riskofruin.html and got:

Risk of Ruin 0.009393%
Win Rate 2.465
Standard Deviation 17.1
Bankroll 550

This assumes that over my last 20K hands I improved enough to have the same winrate at NL25 as I did at NL10
09-28-2008, 08:47 AM
spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

OK, I did some calculations

I took my NL10/PL10 winrate over 20K hands, I added half of the rake to increase my winrate to what it would have been if I had played on stars
then I multiplied my win rate and standard deviation by 2.5
I used BB/100 and std. deviation/100 figures instead of per hour, but I think as long as both are correct it shouldn't matter

I put those figures into an online risk of ruin calculator at http://www.poker-tools-online.com/riskofruin.html and got:

Risk of Ruin 0.009393%
Win Rate 2.465
Standard Deviation 17.1
Bankroll 550

This assumes that over my last 20K hands I improved enough to have the same winrate at NL25 as I did at NL10

If I was a pirate, I would be all like, standARRRd.
09-28-2008, 09:23 AM
wellrounded08

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Quote:

Originally Posted by iopq

OK, I did some calculations

I took my NL10/PL10 winrate over 20K hands, I added half of the rake to increase my winrate to what it would have been if I had played on stars
then I ................................

If I was a pirate, I would be all like, standARRRd.

:facepalm: