Donked into with JJ NL20.

iPoker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.20 BB (10 handed) - iPoker Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

UTG ($59.30)
UTG+1 ($17.23)
UTG+2 ($20)
Hero (MP1) ($20.62)
MP2 ($19.60)
MP3 ($20)
CO ($2.80)
Button ($8.91)
SB ($9.06)
BB ($3.10)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls $0.20, UTG+1 calls $0.20, 1 fold, Hero raises $1, 7 folds, UTG+1 calls $0.80

Flop: ($2.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets $1.60, Hero ???

Villain is totally unknown. I'm split between raising to decide the hand here and calling down for pot control.

he thinks you have missed overcards and possibly has a flush draw

couldnt he also have 77 88 99 TT?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iopq

he thinks you have missed overcards and possibly has a flush draw

---

Pre-flop reads? Without any, couldn't his raise be wider than that? Two pair, some kind of combo draw that includes 78s & 89s, a set that doesn't think you'll fold after raising two limpers from MP AND doesn't want to give a free card on that kind of board or even AK/AQ/AT/KQs kind of hands that see this as a semi-bluff?

If I had all the moniez back that I had lost playing good (but not great) overpairs too far I'd have, well, more moniez... :shock:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sarbox68

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iopq

he thinks you have missed overcards and possibly has a flush draw

---

Pre-flop reads? Without any, couldn't his raise be wider than that? Two pair, some kind of combo draw that includes 78s & 89s, a set that doesn't think you'll fold after raising two limpers from MP AND doesn't want to give a free card on that kind of board or even AK/AQ/AT/KQs kind of hands that see this as a semi-bluff?

If I had all the moniez back that I had lost playing good (but not great) overpairs too far I'd have, well, more moniez... :shock:

---

I'm saying you should call and see what he does on the turn. If he checks the turn on a non-flush card you can fire at it.

Notice I didn't give HIS range, I gave what he thinks of you. So he couldn't be expecting you to necessarily have an overpair so his donk is weak rather than strong. If he is strong he's more likely to fire on the turn and fire a healthy bet. If he's weak he might bet weakly on the turn or check.

calling here is standard. Raising doesnt accomplish anythign against most of his range.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Bbickes

calling here is standard. Raising doesnt accomplish anythign against most of his range.

---

yes

DUCY? and yes those overpairs are in his range as well as 34834 things we beat. Since he's an unknown, raising accomplishes very little.

I think here you have know choice to raise. You don't get any info by calling, You won't even know if a set is possible without a raise, IMO

Hero calls 1.60$.
Turn card 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif
Villain donks for 1.60$ again.

What now?

I would still raise again to 3.80. than if he is still there on the river i would call any suttle bet i would only fold to a big bet or shove.
Don

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by bigstock2001

I think here you have know choice to raise. You don't get any info by calling, You won't even know if a set is possible without a raise, IMO

---

ok I am going to ask a question, if we have no read on villon and he fires a bet on the flop with a weak flop like that how does raising not give you any information. If you just call i would think you did not learn anything about this person. Right now the pot is small enough to where if we realize we are beat we can let go of it. But if we call the 1.60 than the 9 comes out and he bets another 1.60 do we fold even though now the pot odds is alot higher with our over pair. I would say a raise on the flop and another raise on the turn would push him out if he is on a flush draw. but keeping the pot with good pots odds just encourages his draw. Not to mention if your going to play a draw you should bet it. I think ak spades is a really strong possibility with this hand. Not to mention i think a tight aggressive stlye is perfect for this spot. not a passive post flop style.
Don
Please if I am wrong educate me.

Raising for info. is really bad in almost all cases. What kind of hands do you think continue and which ones fold? By playing passively we create a much wider range for villain allowing us to gain the maximum by either betting on later streets when he slows down or by calling him down on none scary turn/river combos.

OP - call on turn again

He also just bet $1.60 into a $5+ pot giving you wicked odds to call. This can sometimes be a trap however.

Call the turn, if he bets the river this weakly again you can call and most of the time you'd be beat, but you'd also be getting wicked pot odds. This line would keep silly hands like pair of tens around.