Tough fold or no-brainer?

This made me want to hurl.

Villain joined table 2 orbits ago. No solid reads but seems to be a limptard, so Im guessing his range is something like A2s+, A8o+.44+. I think if he was bluffing a busted FD on river he would have pushed. About 30 plyrs left, with 15 getting paid.


Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $5+$0.50 Tournament, t100/t200 Blinds (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com

CO (t9291)
Hero (Button) (t8653)
SB (t2960)
BB (t5159)
UTG (t3796)
UTG+1 (t8740)
MP1 (t6901)
MP2 (t6658)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif
UTG calls t200, 2 folds, MP2 calls t200, 1 fold, Hero raises to t1100, 3 folds, MP2 calls t900

Flop: (t2700) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero bets t2000, MP2 calls t2000

Turn: (t6700) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
MP2 checks, Hero checks

River: (t6700) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
MP2 bets t2600, Hero folds

Total pot: t6700

good fold. but, imo...

i bet flop smaller. i try to pull in the other pp's and flush draws. i follow up smaller on turn and check behind river, but fold to a decent donk lead.

you have position, use it. if you were oop, i would fire harder and c/f turn if ui.

imo, the size of your bet only gets called by better hands. bet smaller and pull in those weaker hands, too.

I would check the flop, call a small bet on the turn - otherwise check behind, and probably fold to a river bet. I know this is very passive, but in a tournament everybody who doesn't have an ace is afraid of an ace here. If you call once they are afraid you're trapping. That guy has a healthy stack; I'm pretty sure he didn't like calling here oop in the first place.

And I think here you could really make an argument for betting less preflop - you reall don't need to isolate that bad with AA or KK. You'll very likely still have the best hand on the flop when someon makes a pair, and you might put them in a tough spot.

Preflop is fine. Check flop for pot control and to catch bluffs on later streets. You are not that afraid of letting him catch up on the turn if he is behind because their are very few cards that will help him. I bet turn if he checks again, and call any reasonably sized bets. You are looking for a cheap showdown with this board, if he doesn't have the ace, you are unlikely to get much action anyways. As played I call River, You're getting ~2.6:1 and he could have a lower pair or even a busted flush draw.

Check behind on the flop. Then you can call a bet on the turn and play poker on the river.

Isn't this why we should fold KK pre-flop....?


sorry... that was def not helpful, but couldn't resist.... :shock:

I don't think I'd play this correctly but I'd back off because we are nearing being in the money.

Thanks guys. I think I couldve checked behind on the flop alright, for pot control. Think I just wanted to know straight off where I stood. There seems to be a few conflicting ideas about how to play this spot :)

Sarbox68: Totally bro, KK sucks monkey butt!

jolub: Play to win man. I did fold alright, but not because I was close to the moneyz. I folded because I was almost certainly behind.

iopq: I understand the flop and the turn, but can you explain what you mean by "play poker on the river" ? Thanks.

caddie444: I have to disagree with you about calling the river here. I know the odds are juicy but in all likelihood we are behind and paying to find out leaves us with an M of just 7. I think its a much easier call here in a cash game.

oskar: I see the logic to your line here. I dont think we need to bet less pf though, in these tourneys were just as likely to get a call as if we raised to say 900. Even with AA/KK I prefer to be up against 1 villain postflop.

Chopper: If we bet smaller to pull in those weaker hands too, as you say, then how do we know where were at if we face a shove on the river?

Grassyass :D

you play poker on the river... as in I can't tell you what to do until you see how much he bets, whether he would bet the turn if you had checked the flop, etc.

after my initial recommendation, if he bets the turn after you call the pot size on the turn in hand 1 and hand 2 are the same
but what your opponent thinks you have might be different
therefore he might bet different amount on the river

he might not bet at all on the turn
I can't go through every single scenario, so I'm telling you to "play poker" as in whatever happens you have to make your own decision because I can't analyse every single thing that happens

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by iopq

you play poker on the river... as in I can't tell you what to do until you see how much he bets, whether he would bet the turn if you had checked the flop, etc.

after my initial recommendation, if he bets the turn after you call the pot size on the turn in hand 1 and hand 2 are the same
but what your opponent thinks you have might be different
therefore he might bet different amount on the river

he might not bet at all on the turn
I can't go through every single scenario, so I'm telling you to "play poker" as in whatever happens you have to make your own decision because I can't analyse every single thing that happens

---

Why THe Hell NoT!!!!

:D Coolio, I just never saw the phrase used like that before. TY