Beating micros thought #4

Last one was a fairly simple little exercise, but still produced some interesting conclusions that should be able to help us beat the game. Heres the fun thing about thinking about the game and situations, we get to follow our noses and consider branches of thought in other ways. Lets take the first reply from the thought #3 thread which is probably the initial most obvious answer to the question posed:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JKDS

because in microstakes games people don't fold

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So based on the fact that people rarely fold in microstakes we conclude we can get a lot of money from simple value betting with good hands. Lets investigate that assumption (can probably call it a fact) a bit further though, and see if we can come up with other conclusions. If people dont fold, then what other affect should that have on our game? Try to come up with as many as possible. Think about common spots/advice/theory and see if any of them should be adjusted or take this assumption into account.

Go!



Previous thoughts:

1 - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...-1-t75533.html
2 - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...-2-t75565.html
3 - http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...-3-t75632.html

We should limit the use of bluffs.
We can value bet thinner.

1. Aggressively deny drawing odds w/ made hands. People will call incorrectly and you will get paid.
2. Learn pot control because you will more likely have to play a big pot to show down as it's harder to push people off any piece of the board.
3. It's two street bingo b!tches! Plan your hand before you hit the commitment threshold and then, if you're committed, getting the moniez in is your one and only job.
4. If you're committed, lean towards bigger bets than smaller, shoves over PSBs on later streets. Do the math in your head... how many 10 or 15BB PSBs need to get called to give you the same value from one 70BB shove? And large, over-shoves look like bluffs to alot of folks down here... so you will get called enuff to make more moniez.

slow down when obvious draws complete

edit: I said slow down, probably "be cautious" is a better line.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom

slow down when obvious draws complete

edit: I said slow down, probably "be cautious" is a better line.

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Just an extention:

We can get away with giving our opp.s MUCH worse odds to call a draw, they are drawing cuz they WANT to hit their hand not because they have the odds to call. And then we can be cautious when it hits as stated.

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Originally Posted by wellrounded08

they are drawing cuz they WANT to hit their hand not because they have the odds to call.

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QFT

(I want a bj and a steak dinner, but the odds not lookin so good from right here....)

I dont normally reply to these after posting, but I'm away for a few days so it'll be a while till the next one.

Good start, but theres a lot more. Dont just give it 1-5 mins and reply. Spend the next day or so really thinking deeply about this in your spare time.

Or just read the replies and think you've learnt something, your choice.

- limp and play extreme fit-or-fold, as long as others aren't exploiting it.

- use pot building bets with your high impied odds hands, to let you win a big pot when you hit.

- Open op your range with high card hands and cbet way less often.

- 3bet lighter with high cards (AQ, KQ, AJ, JJ, TT)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by minSim

- limp and play extreme fit-or-fold, as long as others aren't exploiting it.

- use pot building bets with your high impied odds hands, to let you win a big pot when you hit.

- Open op your range with high card hands and cbet way less often.

- 3bet lighter with high cards (AQ, KQ, AJ, JJ, TT)

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eh, eh, eh. I just spent yesterday showing my buddies how to beat the micros on stars and really the things that really helped them out were bet sizing, analyzing flop texture and that they're here to vbet the shit out of their ops and not to catch bluffs.

Not sure of you are agreeing or disagreeing with some, most, or all of my points...

I agree with the things that you said are important.

If you are disagreeing with my points, we have a different opinion on how to get there....so if that's the case, that would be nice to discuss.

value-bet bigger
bluff smaller

well i absolute hate limp and playing fit or fold.

When i have big implied odd hands, that implies that the opponent has a big hand that he's going to stack off with. So you're 'building' a pot with no folding equity and the worst hand and a hand that he'll probably stack off under other circumstances that'll cost you less to hit. Though, im not exactly sure what you're saying.

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

well i absolute hate limp and playing fit or fold.

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Ok, for that one I made the assumption that most micro callingstation players are passive as well. I think that's usually true.

Seems to me that open raising a wide range of hands and cbetting a lot is the worst strategy against it. So there are a few better options, imo;
- Open raising big hands only, for easy value
- Open raising wide but continuing on the flop only when you hit. This seems to not be profitable against all but the most extreme callingstations. Maybe reducing the PFR size would help.
- Looking for another way to see flops cheap and being able to decide after seeing 5 out of 7 cards if we want to continue/play a big pot or not.....meaning limping and fitorfold.

I agree the assumption that villain is passive as well is important.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by a500lbgorilla

When i have big implied odd hands, that implies that the opponent has a big hand that he's going to stack off with. So you're 'building' a pot with no folding equity and the worst hand and a hand that he'll probably stack off under other circumstances that'll cost you less to hit. Though, im not exactly sure what you're saying.

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The pot-sweetening-bet point was mostly about preflop as well.
- Assuming there are other players at the table that could ruin a fitorfold strategy (or maybe the CS player himself). using small betsizes might prevent them.
- it builds a pot for when you hit (which happens often enough with the hands you should be using this with)
- there's often some FE, even against these players
- assuming these players are usually passive, they aren't exploiting our strategy and call way too often (instead of raising as a bluff/value/protection)

Do not get FPS. I've read an article talking about how you can't make someone fold. That's especially true at the micros. You really should be playing straight-forward ABC poker.

Learn how to bet pot. Alot of players at the micros don't differiate much between bet sizes. Therefore, generally you can bet pot with a made hand and get them calling if they like their hand the same % of the time hey would call a 2/3-3/4 PSB.

Learn to value shove. This goes along side the previous point. If you get to the river with a monster (nuts) and the opponent has been calling and calling and you are sure he will call a bet on the river, and a PSB leaves money behind. Sometimes an overshove is in order. As they don't pay attention to bet sizes too often, you will gets calls often, and to some this just looks more like a bluff.