10/20 soul read spot

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07-26-2008, 12:14 PM
IowaSkinsFan

10/20 soul read spot

tjbentham is uber aggro player who plays 25/50 and 10/20. I really have not played with him before, although I'm pretty sure he thinks im just another reg fish he's never seen before. After playing with him I threebet this pre like everytime, but with my current knowledge and image im pretty sure calling was correct.

Thoughts: Turn and river was an insta bet, which kind of made me think as soon as i called the flop he planned to keep betting. The river bet seems like its a bluff, I know no one ever folds a boat but i hadn't been out of line at all so far.

Thoughts appreciated.

POKERSTARS GAME #19113179911: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($10/$20) - 2008/07/26 - 09:37:57 (ET)
Table 'Pannekoek' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Deldar182 ($5175 in chips)
Seat 3: loosefer ($2805 in chips)
Seat 4: heybude ($2080 in chips)
Seat 5: 171958 ($1338 in chips)
Seat 6: tjbentham ($4165.50 in chips)
heybude: posts small blind $10
171958: posts big blind $20
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [Th Tc]
tjbentham: raises $40 to $60
Deldar182: folds
loosefer: folds
heybude: calls $50
171958: folds
*** FLOP *** [Kh Kc Kd]
heybude: checks
tjbentham: bets $120
heybude: calls $120
*** TURN *** [Kh Kc Kd] [2d]
heybude: checks
tjbentham: bets $320
heybude: calls $320
*** RIVER *** [Kh Kc Kd 2d] [2h]
heybude: checks
tjbentham: bets $3665.50 and is all-in (about 1500 into a 1000)
heybude:
07-26-2008, 01:03 PM
Sykedupp

I dont play HS but isnt his range basically 33+, Kx, bluffs?

I think its a relatively easy call, considering how weighted his range is to 33+/bluffs.

Then again, I am LOLDONKAMENTS player..

-Chris
07-26-2008, 01:11 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sykedupp

I dont play HS but isnt his range basically 33+, Kx, bluffs?

I think its a relatively easy call, considering how weighted his range is to 33+/bluffs.

Then again, I am LOLDONKAMENTS player..

-Chris

Yeah more like maybe 99+/bluffs? Probably not 99 though for realz.
07-26-2008, 01:33 PM
Warpe

It looks like he doesn't want a call.
07-26-2008, 02:32 PM
Sykedupp

ISF, you dont think he ever turns some small SD value hands (33-99) into bluffs with how weak you look? If not, then I agree he's either totally bluffshoving or valushoving 99+/Kx.. If he ever turns his weaker hands into bluffs I think a call is good.. If he doesnt then it's pretty close I think.

-Chris
07-26-2008, 02:48 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sykedupp

ISF, you dont think he ever turns some small SD value hands (33-99) into bluffs with how weak you look? If not, then I agree he's either totally bluffshoving or valushoving 99+/Kx.. If he ever turns his weaker hands into bluffs I think a call is good.. If he doesnt then it's pretty close I think.

-Chris

33-99 would be pretty bad hands to take a 3 barrel bluff line with so yeah, I highly highly doubt it.
07-26-2008, 02:48 PM
lolzzz_321

I have polarized his hand to AJ
07-26-2008, 03:12 PM
griffey24

I don't think his range is weighted to 33+ at all here, I'd say its either like JJ+ or bluffs.

His shove on the river is such a level, that I'd say its such a game flow/timing /feel decision.

He'd for sure play AA/QQ/JJ the same I'd imagine.
07-26-2008, 10:16 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

I think you think he thinks too much like you
07-26-2008, 10:32 PM
wufwugy

i dont like folding hands vs uber aggro

and TT is the top of your perceived range. he can easily take big pairs out of your range and put med pairs in, and feel his fe is huge.
07-26-2008, 10:39 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

i dont like folding hands vs uber aggro

and TT is the top of your perceived range. he can easily take big pairs out of your range and put med pairs in, and feel his fe is huge.

99=33 so i dont think he rly cares.
07-26-2008, 10:46 PM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by wufwugy

i dont like folding hands vs uber aggro

and TT is the top of your perceived range. he can easily take big pairs out of your range and put med pairs in, and feel his fe is huge.

99=33 so i dont think he rly cares.

but thats my point. he wants you to fold all those
07-26-2008, 11:28 PM
sauce123

call
07-27-2008, 01:54 AM
pocketfours

Isn't the turn like the worst spot imaginable to double barrel?
07-27-2008, 01:55 AM
Alexos

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

Isn't the turn like the worst spot imaginable to double barrel?

not if u shove rivers, id call too
07-27-2008, 03:27 AM
Renton

i like calling with a hand this high in my range
07-27-2008, 03:38 AM
Bmxicle

yeah I agree with renton. Your hand is basically above the range he thinks you should have. So you are gonna snap off so many of his bluffs though u are only getting value from bluffs as he really isn't gonna go for the valuerown wight less.
07-27-2008, 03:51 AM
Renton

i've been thinking about this hand.

I actually think this is a very very tough spot and very likely a fold. The truth is, we aren't very high in our range at all I don't think. We'd probably never get to this river with less than 99, and we can definitely have JJ, and I personally can have QQ+ here with some small >5% frequency. So in that light TT is probably in the bottom 50% of your range for sure.

He's shoving 1500 into 1000, so we need to fold 66% of the time for his shove with air to show a profit. From a game theoretical-optimal standpoint TT is a fold and JJ is a call, i'd estimate.

The other problem is that there is a massive amount of legitimate hands in his range. KTs+ KQ+ 22 QQ+, thats a lot of combinations of hands which, as we all know, allows him to bluff a lot of combinations of air before we can do shit about it.

I fold, call JJ+.
07-27-2008, 12:57 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bmxicle

yeah I agree with renton. Your hand is basically above the range he thinks you should have. So you are gonna snap off so many of his bluffs though u are only getting value from bluffs as he really isn't gonna go for the valuerown wight less.

I think this whole thing about me having above the range he would put me is trivial. I'm either folding 33-TT or I'm not.
07-27-2008, 01:19 PM
Renton

Its not trivial at all, imo. When you are unaware of villains tendencies (other than that he's simply a very aggro reg) or what he thinks of you, you have nothing to go on really and your next best bet is to avoid being exploited by air. You'd do so by calling with at least the top 33% of your range, no?
07-27-2008, 01:32 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Renton

Its not trivial at all, imo. When you are unaware of villains tendencies (other than that he's simply a very aggro reg) or what he thinks of you, you have nothing to go on really and your next best bet is to avoid being exploited by air. You'd do so by calling with at least the top 33% of your range, no?

Well I'm not saying I shouldn't call here, in fact I did. I do like your point about calling the top 33% to be unexploitable, but it really doesnt matter what 33% i use me thinks.
07-27-2008, 01:46 PM
Renton

well naturally, the top 33% would be best, since theres a slight chance he can merge you with worse
07-27-2008, 01:47 PM
Renton

and obviously that is the only surefire way to randomize
07-27-2008, 08:04 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Aight so I pretty much agreed with the fact that that bet size may not in fact be the one he'd make with quads or overpair and that this is a call. So I called, he had AJo, ship it!