KK vs tagish player

okay so through 50 hands this guy is like 18/13. I really hate folding this but i dont really see him not having a set here. Tough thing was we were a lil deep even and that might have caused me to put it in. Thoughts on how to play this better????

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($37.30)
BB ($32.70)
UTG ($25)
MP ($26.70)
CO ($68.25)
Button ($24.65)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.75, BB calls $0.50.

Flop: ($1.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1.25, BB raises to $4.5, Hero calls $3.25.

Turn: ($10.50) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $3.25, Hero raises to $10, BB raises to $16.75, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $30.50

why are you c/r this turn? this is such a bad board to c/r with an over pair. also im 3 betting this flop almost every time. we have an over pair oop and a super drawy board, plus a diamond blocker. as played i fold.

This is blind vs blind, so I would stack off lighter for sure.

3-bet the flop to ~$11 and shove turn.

Just 3 bet the flop and life is easy. Don't make it hard on yourself when you don't have to. 3 betting the flop makes him stack off lighter than calling does. Plus it makes it possible to shove pretty much every turn and get called by worse.

plus we rarely ever improve, and half the turn cards are really bad for us.

Yeah, stick it in on the flop because you're out of position and I can't really think of any way to put him on narrow enough range to get away on the turn.

get it in somehow, please.

^ What those guys said. And I want to echo will that the turn c/r is really weird and bad. You're effectively turning your hand into a bluff. To put it another way, think about what amount he is likely to bet on the river if you call the turn - for the amount you raised there, you could possibly have got your hand to showdown by just calling.

this flop play is a really major leak

you REALLY need to get it in on this flop As played you getting 6-1 on a call so i look him up.

raise more preflop

why do you all think that getting it in for 130bb vs an 18/13 on this flop is a good play

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

why do you all think that getting it in for 130bb vs an 18/13 on this flop is a good play

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I agree so much that there's way more into this hand than the comments show.

What if villain was 13/10, or 25/20?
What if the board was;
5:h: 6:d: 3:d: ?
5:h: 6:d: 2:d: ?
5:h: 6:d: T:d: ?
5:d: 6:d: 4:d: ?
5:h: 6:d: 4:c: ?

Some thoughts I have:
1. We can't fold flop to the raise.
2. If we 3bet we almost always get it in on the flop.
3. If we call we are looking to get away sometimes (depending on cards and actions)


I did some pokerstove against the following ranges, to give an indication what really matters.

Without 33 and overpairs:
-77-44,87s,76s: 32%
-77-44,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad5d,9d8d,87s,75s: 36%
-77-44,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad8d,Ad7d,Ad5d,Ad3d,Ad2d,Kd Qd,KdJd,KdTd,QdJd,JdTd,Td9d,9d8d,87s,75s: 40%

With 33, without JJ/TT:
- 77-33,87s,76s: 39%
- 77-33,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad5d,9d8d,87s,75s: 41%
- 77-44,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad8d,Ad7d,Ad5d,Ad3d,Ad2d,Kd Qd,KdJd,KdTd,QdJd,JdTd,Td9d,9d8d,87s,75s: 43,5%

Without 33, with JJ/TT:
- JJ-TT,77-44,87s,76s: 52%
- JJ-TT,77-44,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad5d,9d8d,87s,75s: 52,5%
- JJ-TT,77-44,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad8d,Ad7d,Ad5d,Ad3d,Ad2d,Kd Qd,KdJd,KdTd,QdJd,JdTd,Td9d,9d8d,87s,75s: 53%

With 33 and JJ/TT:
- JJ-TT,77-33,87s,76s: 54%
- JJ-TT,77-33,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad5d,9d8d,87s,75s: 52%
- JJ-TT,77-33,AdQd,AdJd,AdTd,Ad9d,Ad8d,Ad7d,Ad5d,Ad3d,Ad2d,Kd Qd,KdJd,KdTd,QdJd,JdTd,Td9d,9d8d,87s,75s: 54%


First conflusion; this isn't an auto stack off against every villain; overpairs <KK getting it in matters A LOT (then we should always 3bet flop). 33 has influence as well as number of bare FD's.


Assuming we call the flop raise, what are bad turn cards for us?
I have pokerstoved the above mentioned groups without JJ/TT (both with and without 33).
Bad turn cards are:
- any 3, 7 or 8 against all ranges. (we c/f)
- a blank diamond only against the widest range, the one with all the FD's in it (we c/f and c/c depending on range and betsizing)
- any Ace, against most mentioned ranges (we c/f)

I have no advice on wether to c/c, c/r, b/f or b/c blank turns (like 6s in this hand), because I just don't know for sure what's best. Better players should comment on it.


I also didn't touch the subject of adjustments to hero's play if villain continues to show strength on blank turns and/or rivers, because it's highly player dependant and we haven't got any info here. (and I'm not 100% positive what to do myself)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nutsinho

why do you all think that getting it in for 130bb vs an 18/13 on this flop is a good play

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thats what im thinking. i think either 3bet/fold the flop or call down is better here than getting it in on the flop.

I think you over-disguised the strength of your hand pre-flop and failed to sell it on the turn. Bet more pre-flop and get it all in post-flop.