3/6 JJ underreped call river?

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05-14-2008, 04:30 AM
The Odds God

3/6 JJ underreped call river?

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $6 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($1329.60)
Button ($600)
SB ($636)
BB ($600)
UTG ($609)
Hero ($716)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
UTG raises to $18, Hero calls $18, 4 folds.

Flop: ($45) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $36, Hero calls $36.

Turn: ($117) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $84, Hero calls $84.

River: ($285) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $234, Hero ????

Villain is www.BTHERE.com, a good aggro reg imo. He is like 25/20/4, but against me he has been pretty conservative this session. Do I call river?
05-14-2008, 11:06 AM
sauce123

fold turn-

who r u on stars?
05-14-2008, 11:39 AM
The Odds God

DaPokerGun
05-14-2008, 12:53 PM
bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

fold turn-

who r u on stars?

seriously? isnt this the best card ever for villain to fire another barrell at? also, why no 3bet pre?
05-14-2008, 07:42 PM
sauce123

ive played with you!
05-15-2008, 10:41 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Odds God

DaPokerGun

You always sit down with me HU at 6-max tables. Stop owning me, k?
05-15-2008, 10:45 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

I think he could conceivably be v-betting worse on the river if he is actually good an aggro.

I don't get why sauce said fold turn unless he is thinking a lot into BTHERE's turn bet-sizing here...
05-15-2008, 02:28 PM
nutsinho

seems like an easy calldown vs bthere. your hand looks no better than 88, so he can be vbetting worse, and obviously he can be trying to bluff you off this
05-15-2008, 08:17 PM
sauce123

maybe im not being clear---i wouldnt fold a blank river if i called turn.... and if i dont know his tendencies at all id likely fold turn
05-16-2008, 05:33 AM
The Odds God

Quote:

Originally Posted by bode

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

fold turn-

who r u on stars?

seriously? isnt this the best card ever for villain to fire another barrell at? also, why no 3bet pre?

There are a lot of reasons for flatting here. I would also flat AA a lot here. He has been folding a lot to my 3bets, but I know he hates to be pushed around so it would be a tough spot if he decided to 4bet bluff here because I can't comfortably felt JJ in ep pf battle. He is also the type to either 4bet or fold OOP, he rarely just calls. Also, if he just calls and I make an overpair, he can fold like TT,99, overpair because my line looks really strong. So JJ loses a lot if I 4bet and it gets me into tough spots. while if I just call, he might make second best hand and I can extract more value. Meh, there more reasons for flatting here that I don't remember now. nothing wrong with 3betting.
05-16-2008, 05:34 AM
The Odds God

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Odds God

DaPokerGun

You always sit down with me HU at 6-max tables. Stop owning me, k?

who are you?
05-16-2008, 11:26 AM
sauce123

yea flattign pre is definitely correct not close
05-16-2008, 01:05 PM
gabe

bthere is value betting the river and hes definitely good enough to have KT, and maybe even TT
05-16-2008, 01:23 PM
nutsinho

i think i take back what i said earlier. Bthere probably expects you to not have much other than PPs after flatting preflop in this spot, and he'd probably expect you to semibluff/stackoff with 88 since flop is so scary. So if he respects you much I think he'd kinda expect you to have 99+ weighted towards 99-TT with some JJ-QQ.
05-16-2008, 05:16 PM
wader

Tough spot, you are kind of setting the trap with JJ by sc pre. What do you put him on??? Who the hell knows, it's pretty tough to put him on a hand when you are calling down. He probabbly puts you on 1010 at best. Looks to me like 78spade or at least a decent draw that blanked on river. Just one of those spots you got to go with your gut. i pay off here against him.
05-19-2008, 07:54 AM
MrWildHaggis

Raise on the turn! K is the best card to come out here. Your hand range has more Ks than his. If he has a better hand than Js, he will push.
If not he will almost certainly call and you can lead out with confidence on the river. Aggression is the only way to find out where you stand here. Calling down is a straight gamble
05-19-2008, 08:46 AM
griffey24

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrWildHaggis

Raise on the turn! K is the best card to come out here. Your hand range has more Ks than his. If he has a better hand than Js, he will push.
If not he will almost certainly call and you can lead out with confidence on the river. Aggression is the only way to find out where you stand here. Calling down is a straight gamble

I don't think our range doesn't have more K's in it than his. The only K's we can possibly have our KJ/KQ/Kxs that flat called preflop and fully floated this flop with K high.

His range has all K's that he's opening UTG and cont betting this board.

Raising this turn for info is turning our hand into a bluff. It's also stopping him from continuing any multi-street bluff he was about to pull.
05-19-2008, 10:02 AM
MrWildHaggis

I mis read, i thought i was BB so i had credited myself with any Kx. You are right, i would not flat call from MP with any K, but i would never flat call JJ with an UTG raise. There are simply too many hands which could feel valued in from the button/blinds.
I agree with Sauce tho

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

i wouldnt fold a blank river if i called turn....

but i think i would have to raise turn then cb river if called. I would fold if pushed on the turn. It doesnt matter that it turns your hand into a bluff, you have disguised your Js this far. Represent the KQ/KJ. If he pushes without the K because he thinks you are bluffing it is a straight gamble on his part. If you fc the turn, he will always cb the river regardless.
06-03-2008, 02:56 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

bthere is value betting the river

Where are you picking this up from? I assume you mean you think this is a valuebet pretty much everytime.
06-03-2008, 03:12 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

bthere is value betting the river

Where are you picking this up from? I assume you mean you think this is a valuebet pretty much everytime.

danny stop posting on my accnt damnit!
06-03-2008, 03:13 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Odds God

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Odds God

DaPokerGun

You always sit down with me HU at 6-max tables. Stop owning me, k?

who are you?

redgrape