Blowing hours of hard work with two spewy plays

Found myself down 3 BIs within about 100 hands today, and I lost all of that on just two hands:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (9 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($10)
UTG+1 ($10.08)
MP1 ($17.83)
MP2 ($15.73)
MP3 ($2.31)
Hero ($9.21)
Button ($5.55)
SB ($3.68)
BB ($14.25)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.2, 1 fold, SB calls $0.18, 1 fold, MP2 calls $0.15.

Flop: ($0.65) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
SB checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets $0.5, SB calls $0.50, MP2 folds.

Turn: ($1.65) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $1.3, SB raises to $2.98, Hero calls $1.68.

River: ($7.61) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $7.61

Villain is 16/0/6 (19). I figured there were only three cards in the deck that beat me (7d 9d very unlikely), but frankly his play was perfectly consistent with having one of them, and not consistent with much else. Still couldn't stop myself calling with what was in reality a weak flush.

He could have been trying to represent it without having it, but hey, that would be higher level thinking and this is 5NL.


Hand 2:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.05 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP2 ($9.65)
CO ($10.02)
Button ($17.80)
SB ($3.51)
Hero ($10.55)
UTG ($5.50)
UTG+1 ($3)
MP1 ($2.10)

Preflop: Hero is BB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ad.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ah.gif. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.05.
1 fold, UTG+1 (poster) checks, 2 folds, CO calls $0.05, Button calls $0.05, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.2, UTG+1 folds, CO calls $0.15, Button calls $0.15.

Flop: ($0.67) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ts.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3h.gif (3 players)
Hero bets $0.6, CO folds, Button raises to $1.2, Hero raises to $10.35, Button calls $9.15.

Turn: ($21.37) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/th.gif (2 players)

River: ($21.37) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/qd.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $21.37

Villain here is 35/1/1 (300+). Smaller-than-ideal raise pre-flop was an adjustment to a generally tight table, although this villain was probably the loosest there. I figured at the time that there were a few hands he could have raised post flop here - any set (bad for me), anything with a 10 (good for me - until the turn that is!!). I hoped to take it down on the flop with that push, but alas no.

This one I'm not so sure I played that badly. I should've gone bigger pre-flop, but other than that should I have played this any differently?? Given his low AF, should I have assumed raise = set here?

1) Raise to 0.25 pre and check behind on the turn and fold river if he bets otherwise check behind.

2) Raise more pre, 0.35. As played 3b flop to $3.

I think your pre-flop bet sizing is a bit too small, but I wouldn't shit myself over either hand.

You're going to play some stinkers, you're going to lose some big pots. You're going to get your money in funny if you bluff enough (you probably don't.) If you don't give yourself permission to make a mistake or make a big bet when you think the other guy doesn't have it, you won't progress as a player.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fnord

If you don't give yourself permission to make a mistake or make a big bet when you think the other guy doesn't have it, you won't progress as a player.

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Fnord has given some great advice on FTR, but this is some of the best. VNH!!

Hand 1 seems like you should fold to the turn raise. Hand 2 seems like just a cooler.

Also, what Fnord said.

Hand 2 is bad. Obviously raise more preflop. On the flop if you put him on top pair or a set then how on earth is shoving the right play?

Thanks Fnord.

I guess I'm just a bit frustrated that I killed 2NL for over 40BB/100 and moved up to 5NL, but since then have gone sideways. I've played about three times as many hands at 5NL as I played at 2NL at a winrate of about 2BB/100, but with big variance (bounced up and down within a 6BI range). Every time I make progress I seem to drop back down again quickly, and I'm not sure how much is normal variance and how much is me spewing with dumb plays.

But you're right, I need to make mistakes, as long as I learn from them, which I why I keep bothering you all with my hands. Hopefully I am learning. And thanks to you all for your comments.

Martin, good point on the set. But if I thought he had TP then I had that beat on the flop with AA, no? Only when he called my push did I know for sure it was a set (and it was - he had 33).

In retrospect I agree the push was a mistake anyway though - only hands that had me beat would have called, and with a smaller bet I might've either been called with a worse hand, or raised by a better one and could've then folded and saved most of my stack.

Won't do it like that again.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TonyB73

But if I thought he had TP then I had that beat on the flop with AA, no?

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just because you are ahead doesn't mean you should push. pushing makes it as easy as possible for villain to get away from his hand. like you noted, a set calls your push way more often than top pair does.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TonyB73

I guess I'm just a bit frustrated that I killed 2NL for over 40BB/100 and moved up to 5NL, but since then have gone sideways.

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i dunno how many hands you played of 2nl but 40bb/100 is absolutely not sustainable at any level at any site so you obviously had your hopes set way too high.