Help me - I can't even beat a callingstation....

Hi everybody

I have just started playing cash games 14 days ago and I am not very good at it... :(

I have played turneys before and that went ok, but this I can not seem to get a hold on...

I am trying to find the tables with callingstations or fish on (because they should be the easiest to beat...), but I can not beat them...
I am doing pretty ok whit Thight passive people (they are pretty predictable...), but I can find out how to play the other ones.

It seems like I am earning a little cash on every hand for then to loose it all to a callingstation everytime... (so all in all I win small and loose big...) What am I doing wrong?

My stats are 25,1/9,15/2,54, am I to aggressive or what am I doing wrong?

Below there is yest another example of me messing things up :cry: , please help me:

Hero ($10,45)
BB ($19,50)

It was folded so it was only me and the big blind

Hero is dealt Ad Qd
Hero posts a blind of $0.10.
BB calls $0.10

Flop: [Ac Th 9d]
Hero bets $0,10
BB calls

Turn: [Ac Th 9d] [3s]
Hero bets $0.30
BB calls

River: [Ac Th 9d 3s] [Qs]
Hero bets $0.90
BB raises to $3.75
Hero to $6.60
BB raises to $9.45
Hero calls $2.85

BB shows [Js Kd] a straight, Ace high

For my preflop play I am using Rentons suggestion on what to play where, but I can not seem to find out how to play postflop :cry:

Now when I have cooled down a little bit (it is 10 minutes since this hand was played :) ) and can see that I maybee should not have reraised in the end, but I did not have the fantasy to imagine that she had so good cards in BB (I newer have :wink: )

btw I play at $10 NL

I am thinking about moving down to $5 NL but I am playing at Impire and they mostly have speed table at that level, so what do a clever person do (and what do I do :wink: )?

Welcome Lonny & GL... A couple of thoughts...

1) Raise PF to .5
2) 3/4 - PSB the flop
3) 1/2 - 3/4 PSB the turn
4) C/C or B/C his raise

Problem isn't that this guys a calling station... You're Blind v. Blind and you just let him buy out his draw for next to nothing. Of course he's staying in... with the implied odds from your stack sizes, he'll call down your tiny bets all the way to the River. Then he hits... and unfortunately you hit two-pair as well. He springs to life on the River and an ugly board and you go right over him 'cause you can't let go the two-pair.

I know it's tough to slow down with two pair, but 1) you gotta make him pay to draw out and 2) you gotta pay attention to the combination of what the board and his bets are telling you.

Loose calling stations can actually be your friend... They'll play too loose, and they'll call you all the way down with middle pair and draws. So make them pay -- they'll still hit sometimes, that's just poker. But they'll pay your @ss off all the other times they don't and that will be more than enough to be EV+.

I don't know what your roll is, but I'd drop down to $2 or $5NL. Tighten up (25 VPIP is too loose for my tastes), aggro up (try and get your PFR to 75% of your VPIP) and get paid. :shock:

Good luck!

Hi sarbox

Thanks for taking the time to read my post :)

The raise preflop - I thought about it and desided that and did not want to scare him off. Know when I look back I can see that I would have been better of winning 0.1 But is it never correct to just limb to the BB, or should I wait with doing this until I play better postflop?

You write that of couse he will call my tiny bets alle the way down to the river, but aside from the preflop raise I have bet almost exactly what you have suggested: ½ the pot post flop - 3/4 pot on river - and the pot on turn.

You absolutely right about the part where you are saying that I can't let go of the two pair, this is unfortunaly a situation that I often find my self in. I get so absorbed in the game, that my normal thinking (like: when a passive player raises you, he usaly has the nuts ) goes out the window. How did you learn to keep your fingers away from the mouse button and instead take the time to think? I think this could be my biggest problem - getting so excited that I do not think at all.

Regarding my WPIP, how high do you think it should be? I do not want to play totaly thight like 10-15%, because when I meet these kind of players on the table, I just always fold when they raise, so their problem must be not to get action when they finanly do get a hand.

About the aggro, if this should be 75%, then I can almost not limp small pairs or big suited connectors. So is your suggestion because you also want me to raise these or because you do not want me to play them?

As I mentioned earlier I am playing by the suggestion by Renton: http://www.flopturnriver.com/Small-S...y-Preflop.html and this is what have given me the 25% WPIP, do you think I should be a better player before I apply his rules or just learn to play postflop?
As I mentioned all in all it I am playing ok on most of the hands, but then I some how get a hand I can´t seem to throw away and this is when I loose big time.So I win small and loose big time - and normaly I will loose big time on my big pairs (because I can´t throw them away), where I have no problem of letting go of AK or suited connectors.

You realy got me thinking here (so I am sorry for the very long reply :wink: ) - I thik that my biggest problem is that I some how gets to absorbed in the game when I get big hands (thinking: Now is the time when I gonna win big time :D ) and then I forget all I have ever learned about playing poker :?

So how do I learn not to act on my emotions and instead use what I have learned?

Another thing I have been wondering about is, that often I find my self going all in on the river (usaly because I get pushed with a better hand) when some one has outdrawn me, and then I am thinking that if I know that I will probaly have to go all the way with this hand, then I should go all in on the flop or the turn, so then I will also have the chance of getting them to fold, which they never do at the river? Or is this the wrong approach?

But back to your suggestion,what do you think my stats should be - ?/75/?

And if you have read all of this I thank you for your patience and hope that you will give me some more advice (anyone else are also more than welcome to reply :D )

Kind regards Lonny

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lonny

As I mentioned earlier I am playing by the suggestion by Renton: http://www.flopturnriver.com/Small-S...y-Preflop.html

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You need to reread this thread. You need to reread the preflop section and anything about betting and specifically raising. Slow down and spend some more time reading before taking you game back to the cash tables. GL

Hi Trainer-Jyms

That is also the conslusion that I have reached and then I will go through every hand that I have played, to see if I can find out where I typicaly go wrong, and see if I am able to read my apponants hands.

btw I will mention that when I look at my stats in PT it says that my WPIP is 24,85% but my "Saw flop when not in blinds" is 15,31%. I assume that the reason for this is, that people seldom raises at the tables I am playing at.
Does my preflop stats look better, when I have told this or should I still do some work on this?

I Thank you for taking the time to read my thread :D

Kind regards

Lonny

My WPIP looks like this:

Button 36,77%
1 25,09%
2 21,91%
3 13,56%
4 16,28%
5 15,05%
6 16,67%
7 17,86%
BB 12,54%
SB 59,21%

The last couple of days I have been folding a lot more in BB and SB, because I can see that I am loosing money playing from here (but has of cause not effected my stats yet).

Let me know if some of the above looks especialy wrong?

I thank you in advance

Kind regards

Lonny

It all looks wrong because you have a complete misunderstanding of the relationship between VPIP and PFR%. It's not about seeing flops.

It might be, but if you do not tell me what your think I have misunderstood, than your answer is not gonna make me any wisere :)

According to PT I am playing Sligthly loose agressive, but this is wrong you say? Or is it because I am aggressive at the wrong times?

My raises looks like this:

Button 13,5%
1 10,78% Raise first in 8,35%
2 11,05% Raise first in 7,62%
3 7,27% Raise first in 7,68%
4 8,67% Raise first in 8,03%
5 6,94% Raise first in 5,09%
6 8,17% Raise first in 7,52%
7 8,93% Raise first in 8,93%
BB 6,27% Raise first in 0,00%
SB 8,41% Raise first in 4,65%

I went to showdown 22,16% and won 39,46%

I rely want to learn and maybe your are right that I do not have a clue, but then you maybe could give me a hint on where I totaly lost it?

I thank you in advance

Kind regards

Lonny

You need to raise with at least 3/4 of you hands. If your running 20%VPIP you need to have a PFR% of 15% minimum. If your playing 16% VPIP you need to have a PFR% of 12% minimum.

Until you know exactly why (There are many very specific reasons) Never limp first in. If your the first to bet preflop, you raise. IF I was you, I wouldn't change my PFR% but I would drastically cut my VPIP%. Until you learn more about postflop play, I would play less marginal hands like KJ, AT and KQ in early and middle positions. Don't play SC's under JTs unless there are several players in the pot already. I wouldn't change your aggression numbers at all, but I would stop playing TPMK hands for 3 streets of betting.

Remember that in cash games you have 3 streets of betting. Unlike tournements where you have only 10, 20 or even 35 BB stacks. This is 100BB stacks most times, and the money remaining to bet is usually more important then the pot in front of you. It is typically more than the pot itself. Protect your stack and bet on your terms. This means betting, raising and calling amounts your comfortable with and from a position where you are able to do that.

Hi Trainer-jyms

Now I understand what you mean :D
and I think that you are absolutely right, the cards I have ben playing might have been ok to play for a person who is a better player than me, but I get into to many troubles with them :oops:

I have been looking at your school and I have now signed in, and I hope that watching all of your videos will help me be a better player :D I have already noticed a few things regarding raising preflop and how many hands to play, so I will just continue watching :D

Oh, and btw what is TPMK? Top Pair ... ...

Thanks for your reply and have a nice day

Kind regards

Lonny

The .01/.02 $5 max (no rake!) game at PokerStars is really amazing for someone like you.

Hi Fnord

I wast just in there looking at there side because they where the only ones having this low tables, but then I discovered that you where not allowed to datamine their site so I would not have en stats on people there... :cry:

But do you suggest that I then play without stats and then get them a long the way?

And wow, I did not notice that they had no rake, thats a great thing :D

Kind regards

Lonny

Datamining is over-kill and people can change gears day to day. Just focus on playing good and figuring out what your opponents are up to. Learn to punch a little, then counter-punch. The counter-punch is where all the real money is.

I like datamining, but maybe this also makes me not pay enough attention (because I think I already know it all :wink: ), so I will give it a try :D

Thanks for your reply and have a nice day.

Kind regards

Lonny

At the lowest levels datamining really isn't that important. Most players are bad, and it'll quickly become clear in what ways they are bad. A few players are decent - again this will become clear as it'll stand out above the poor play. Instead of relying on datamining, start making notes - watch every showdown and make notes on any specific play you see any of the players making.

Hi everybody

Just wanna tell that I have played at PS $5 NL after having read this post.

I had a WPIP on 17,5% and a preflopraise on 71% ( PFR/ WPIP )- and I took a lot of notes, so I am paying attention to what you people are telling me :D

I did loose $2 though because a pair of jacks hit a set when I had a pair of quens, but that can happend, I am still glad that I tried to play the other way. The preflop raising helped a lot, because when I did not hit my set with a small pair I could still c-bet when a high card hit the flop, an make people fold this way :D

I thank you all very much for taking the time to help me :D

Kind regards and have a nice day.

Lonny

GL bro... keep doing this and you'll do just fine.

Submit a couple of hands here and there, I figure you have a couple of huge leaks but posting PT stats won't show us them.

Use Alt + Printscreen on PT, go into paint and press Ctrl + V then upload the image to imageshack.us or whatever - that way you don't have to type out stats manually. :)

Thanks for the explanation on how to paste pictures, I just could not get it to work, this will save me at lot of time :D

I deffently still have a lot of leaks, because right now I am starting to learn how to play correctly preflop (and this I have not learnt all about yet), but I still need to learn how to play postflop, turn and river.

I think one of my biggest leaks at the moment is playing big pairs, I am betting them to much. So I loose big time with them and win small time with them. So I am trying to finde the right way to play them. Usaly I just bet the pot on every street, whitch means that people with better hands than me, just hides behind my aggression at end up taking the pot from me :cry:
But I read an article here on FTR suggesting just betting ½ the pot (the whole pot postflop if there is a draw), to see if someone reraised me. So I will try this in the future.

I will soon post some of my hands, but I did not play so many hands yesterday, so the sample is very small (and I do not want to put in the old ones, where I did eveything wrong :wink: )

Kind regards and have a nice day

Lonny

Let me ask you a question. When you get AA and bet pot every street, what other hands would they think you have? And what I mean is, what other hands do you bet pot every street with other than AA KK or QQ? This is why raising a lot more hands preflop and Cbetting the flop is so important. You can't limp all your weaker hands and fold to bets, and then come out firing for three streets with good hands, how would you play against someone who does that?

Very good question - I totaly see what you mean :D

I am trying to chance that right now, so I am raising a lot more preflop (around 70% of my hands) and I am c-betting if a scarecard falls on the board (even if I missed). So I do hope that I will get a hang of it.

As I told earler in this tread my stats are now 17,5/12,5

Kind regards and have a nice day

Lonny

I was wondering the same thing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Trainer_jyms

Let me ask you a question. When you get AA and bet pot every street, what other hands would they think you have? And what I mean is, what other hands do you bet pot every street with other than AA KK or QQ? This is why raising a lot more hands preflop and Cbetting the flop is so important. You can't limp all your weaker hands and fold to bets, and then come out firing for three streets with good hands, how would you play against someone who does that?

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just a quick question. at limit this low. do players really look for that? isn't a robotic strategy better?

What do you consider a robotic strategy? We can't just sit an wait and bet good hands, anybody that's played for a week will see this. Most weak players are playing one or two tables. They can get some reads pretty easy. These limits are so easy to beat using a range of styles and stats, but your goal is to ingrain the habits and learn to play poker for the next few levels. It's about learning to play a game that can beat $100NL and above.