Multitabling tips

Well hullo all...

First post here, so please be gentle...

I've been playing online on and off for a couple of years, and have made the switch from SNGs to FR cash games, which I started playing in earnest in December last year. I built a roll from $120 to $900 at UB, starting with SNGs to build the roll to $300 and then playing mainly $10 and $25 NL. Having withdrawn a load of cash (partly to cover all my learning taxes from various sites when I really, really, really sucked) I've now dumped $450 into Full Tilt and I want to start multitabling properly. As the $450 is clear profit, I'm hoping that I won't be playing scared money.

At UB I did ok at the $10 limit, running around 4ptbb over 5k hands, and did well at the $25 limit, running 12ptbb/100 over around 11k hands. I know it's a small sample size, but with FTR's help (been an avid reader for yonks) I've started to try and improve my game, recognising where I got lucky and where I've actually played ok.

I'm back down at the donk stakes at $10 NL FR, and intend to stay there while I build a decent roll (1k before I move to $25) and while I get used to multitabling. However, I think I suck at these stakes, particularly when running more than two tables, with the wider range of hands that people play.

Anyone got any tips on how to play multiple tables effectively? I run PT and PAHUD. Is it a case of playing purely hand by hand against HUD stats, or is there more to it that I haven't figured out yet? I feel my biggest problem is picking up non-HUD-stat reads on players when I'm constantly jumping between tables, particularly when opps flip mediocre holdings when I'd pegged them for much stronger hands.

My stats at UB were something like 17/7 to 16/10 depending on level (I'm already working on hand selection and PF/post flop play), but what should I expect when multitabling? Is supernitty (ie 10/7) normal or is it possible to play a wider range profitably? Or at $10 tables should I be aiming for something like 20/15?

Any thoughts, tips, stats etc would be most helpful.

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Originally Posted by seren

First post here, so please be gentle...

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Welcome to FTR!! Glad you got in here and started posting.

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Originally Posted by seren

At UB I did ok at the $10 limit, running around 4ptbb over 5k hands, and did well at the $25 limit, running 12ptbb/100 over around 11k hands. I know it's a small sample size, but with FTR's help (been an avid reader for yonks) I've started to try and improve my game, recognising where I got lucky and where I've actually played ok.

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You admitted "small" sample size, but both these are TINY. That's not a problem - just realize they are VERY inaccurate estimates of your long term win rate. Hopefully you're good and getting better. Any win rate that's positive is a great start!!

BTW, I've played UB pretty consistently for a year a now, at NL2, NL10 and just recently at NL25. My username there is ArsenalRocks (2-0 over AC Milan, last night!!). Have we ever bumped into each other there?

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Originally Posted by seren

Anyone got any tips on how to play multiple tables effectively? I run PT and PAHUD. Is it a case of playing purely hand by hand against HUD stats, or is there more to it that I haven't figured out yet? I feel my biggest problem is picking up non-HUD-stat reads on players when I'm constantly jumping between tables, particularly when opps flip mediocre holdings when I'd pegged them for much stronger hands.

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There's always more to it than HUD reads. I used to think that multitablers were playing like robots against HUD stats. Well, 90% of poker hands play themselves (usually a fold), and we can all play AA pretty well. But on those other hands, good multitablers (and me, too) are processing a lot of information - position, stack sizes, table image, recent heads up outcomes against that villain, notes we've typed in. Good multitablers learn to "rid" themselves of unnecessary hands/decisions quickly and move on leaving plenty of time for reads and thought on the important hands. Multitablers just make their decisions faster.

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Originally Posted by seren

My stats at UB were something like 17/7 to 16/10 depending on level (I'm already working on hand selection and PF/post flop play), but what should I expect when multitabling? Is supernitty (ie 10/7) normal or is it possible to play a wider range profitably? Or at $10 tables should I be aiming for something like 20/15?

Any thoughts, tips, stats etc would be most helpful.

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Super-nitty preflop is fine. Some guys (look at Wesrman's operation thread) play very tight pre and do well. Super-tight works well at FR micros since you still get action on premium hands even after folding 78 hands in a row. No one's paying any attention.

My issue with your preflop stats is how often you limp/call. I play UB's NL10 FR tables about 15/13 and their 6max tables about 18/16. I almost never limp, and the 2% difference comes from calling with small/med pp's from MP/LP. 17/7 is too passive preflop by most people's standards. I like to suggest that new players aim for raising something like 2/3's (or more!) of the hands they open. I would like, say, 15/10 or 17/12 stats.

How does this relate to multitabling? It takes a lot more time to limp effectively than it does to raise/bet/fold effectively. Limping gets deep into hands (turn/river). Raising takes down pots on the flop. A TAGG style works well for multitabling 'cuz we don't spend tons of time on limped hands where we have to put tons of thought into every street just to win a $1.50.

I multitable 10+ 6max games at a time or 15 FR games (or did in Feb, when I was at NL10). I moved up to NL25 and cut way back. While I'm playing 10 6max tables, I am still taking notes, gettting non-HUD reads on players, and watching villains stacks and other table conditions.

So my advice is this - add one more table at a time until you're 20 tabling. And listen to everything spoonitnow says - he's a multitabling fiend.

Hi Robb - thanks for the welcome and the very comprehensive reply... I love some of your other posts, even though they induce cringemaking self-recognition!

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Originally Posted by Robb

ArsenalRocks (2-0 over AC Milan, last night!!)

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A close friend of mine is a mad Gooner. I think he has most of the old Highbury stadium in his back garden.

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Originally Posted by Robb

Have we ever bumped into each other there?

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My username on UB is serendip - I think we've played 40 hands at $10. You cruelly ripped 10 cents from my stack.

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Originally Posted by Robb

My issue with your preflop stats is how often you limp/call. 17/7 is too passive preflop by most people's standards. I like to suggest that new players aim for raising something like 2/3's (or more!) of the hands they open. I would like, say, 15/10 or 17/12 stats

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Thanks for pointing this out - it is something I am consciously working on, but what you say about it particularly relating to multitabling makes a huge amount of sense. Another area I know I need to work on is knowing when to fold or raise good holdings preflop behind multiple raisers/callers on looser tables instead of just calling.

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Originally Posted by Robb

So my advice is this - add one more table at a time until you're 20 tabling. And listen to everything spoonitnow says - he's a multitabling fiend.

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Will certainly be following spoonitnow's posts with a keen eye, along with many others here on FTR. Think I might need to raid the roll for a bigger screen before attempting 20 tables though...

Lay your dick on the mouse and say "Walla walla bing bang" eight times before every session.

You have to listen -- Robb said so. ;)

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Lay your dick on the mouse and say "Walla walla bing bang" eight times before every session.

You have to listen -- Robb said so. ;)

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Outplayed on the turn - again.

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Originally Posted by seren

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Originally Posted by Robb

Have we ever bumped into each other there?

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My username on UB is serendip - I think we've played 40 hands at $10. You cruelly ripped 10 cents from my stack.

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LoL. I'll check my PT database tonight and see what I can find.

And about what you said: cringing & seeing your own poker playing when reading some of my posts? I just write about the stoopid shit I do at the tables, that I've learned is stoopid, and that I think I know (at least in part) WHY it's stoopid. A full list of the stoopid shit I do at the tables would all of FTR like 9 times over. But I'm glad some of my donk-fish dumbass playing/learning has helped others.

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Lay your dick on the mouse and say "Walla walla bing bang" eight times before every session.

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It's not working.

Maybe I'm not saying it right. :(

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Lay your dick on the mouse and say "Walla walla bing bang" eight times before every session.

You have to listen -- Robb said so. ;)

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You see? This is the kind of stuff Doyle will never tell you in Super System.

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Originally Posted by deacon_bluez

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Lay your dick on the mouse and say "Walla walla bing bang" eight times before every session.

You have to listen -- Robb said so. ;)

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You see? This is the kind of stuff Doyle will never tell you in Super System.

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Someone suggested maybe spoon could make a poker video demonstrating how to multitable :shock:

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Originally Posted by seren

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Originally Posted by spoonitnow

Lay your dick on the mouse and say "Walla walla bing bang" eight times before every session.

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It's not working.

Maybe I'm not saying it right. :(

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There are times when the short version doesn't work for newbies.

Try - Ooh Eeh Ooh Ahh Ahh Ting Tang Walla Walla Bing Bang

I just fell out of my chair :lol:

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Originally Posted by Robb

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Originally Posted by seren

First post here, so please be gentle...

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BTW, I've played UB pretty consistently for a year a now, at NL2, NL10 and just recently at NL25. My username there is ArsenalRocks (2-0 over AC Milan, last night!!). Have we ever bumped into each other there?

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dude thats you? i was using ultimatebuddy last week to look up some fish, and one was on a 25nl table and i saw you there. I was like, hmm he must've bankrolled enough to move up. im frosst160 on there. damn ftr regs lol. robb, how do position your tables on there and your PT stat overlay?

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Originally Posted by frosst

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Originally Posted by Robb

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Originally Posted by seren

First post here, so please be gentle...

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BTW, I've played UB pretty consistently for a year a now, at NL2, NL10 and just recently at NL25. My username there is ArsenalRocks (2-0 over AC Milan, last night!!). Have we ever bumped into each other there?

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dude thats you? i was using ultimatebuddy last week to look up some fish, and one was on a 25nl table and i saw you there. I was like, hmm he must've bankrolled enough to move up. im frosst160 on there. damn ftr regs lol. robb, how do position your tables on there and your PT stat overlay?

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That's funny - I'm one of the fish you were trackin'? LoL. Good to know SOMEONE realizes how bad I suck at poker.

I'll drop back to NL10 for a few hundred hands tonight and take a screenshot of my 15-table FR setup. Probably post it here in this thread. UB only allows 9 open tables at once, so I have 8 UB tables and 7 Absolute tables running simultaneously. I have configured my HUD to work with the UB "mini" feature which I find easier than dealing with 8 "big" tables.

I multitable 15+ on a single 19" monitor, with tables cascading. I can pm my HUD layouts, if you're interested. But they're quickly going to become obselete with PT3 on the way. BTW, UB and my HUD only seem to be able to handle 8 open tables at once. So even though I can open/position 9 UB tables, it seems to exceed the tolerance of PT2/PAHUD. I can't wait for PT3!!

Ive taken shots at 6 tabling the last couple of nights, and honestly its no where near the disaster I thought it would be. But 15 or 16+ ??? WTF MAN!

lol

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Originally Posted by speedcake

Ive taken shots at 6 tabling the last couple of nights, and honestly its no where near the disaster I thought it would be. But 15 or 16+ ??? WTF MAN!

lol

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I'm not the best multitabler around - Spoonitnow plays as many as 22 or 24 at once. I'm hoping to move to a couple of sites that have better betting AHK betting scripts and table management scripts. Then I think I could get to 20 at a time.

[quote="Robb"][quote="frosst"][quote="Robb"]

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Originally Posted by seren

First post
That's funny - I'm one of the fish you were trackin'? LoL. Good to know SOMEONE realizes how bad I suck at poker.

I'll drop back to NL10 for a few hundred hands tonight and take a screenshot of my 15-table FR setup. Probably post it here in this thread. UB only allows 9 open tables at once, so I have 8 UB tables and 7 Absolute tables running simultaneously. I have configured my HUD to work with the UB "mini" feature which I find easier than dealing with 8 "big" tables.

I multitable 15+ on a single 19" monitor, with tables cascading. I can pm my HUD layouts, if you're interested. But they're quickly going to become obselete with PT3 on the way. BTW, UB and my HUD only seem to be able to handle 8 open tables at once. So even though I can open/position 9 UB tables, it seems to exceed the tolerance of PT2/PAHUD. I can't wait for PT3!!

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nah, i said you just so happened to be at the table he was at when i went there. nah, ive got you down as a nit lol but yea the screenshot would be great. im doing 4 tables right now but was wondering how to fit more and still have PAHUD show my stats. thanks for the help

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Originally Posted by frosst

nah, i said you just so happened to be at the table he was at when i went there. nah, ive got you down as a nit lol but yea the screenshot would be great. im doing 4 tables right now but was wondering how to fit more and still have PAHUD show my stats. thanks for the help

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Here are two screenshots of my 15 table setup: 9 UB + 6 Absolute. I can when I have active hands by checking the bottom left corner of the UB minitables, and I can see the grey "action" bar on the Absolute tables when I have a hand play there. I played 385 hands in about 25 minutes, and lost $0.01 overall. LoL. But there's a dollar rake to make up for it.

http://xs225.xs.to/xs225/08105/15tables1131.jpg.xs.jpghttp://xs225.xs.to/xs225/08105/15tables2266.jpg.xs.jpg

LoL. So I play a few hands against you while I'm setting everything up for the screenshots. You thought I was messing with you, maybe? Here are the HH's. For others reading this, Frosst was sittin' 2 seats to my right, so we were in these hands against each other.

$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
9 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($2.25)
UTG 1 ($15.09)
MP1 ($9.85)
Hero ($10.67)
MP3 ($9.50)
CO ($1.30)
BTN ($11.23)
SB ($10.46)
BB ($10.00)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 9 players) Hero is MP2 :th: :tc:
1 fold, UTG 1 raises to $0.4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $1.35, 5 folds, UTG 1 calls $0.95

Flop: :5s: :6s: :9c: ($2.85, 2 players)
UTG 1 checks, Hero bets $2.85, UTG 1 folds

Final Pot: $5.7

Hero wins $5.56 ( won $1.36 )
UTG 1 lost -$1.35


$0.05/$0.1 No Limit Holdem
7 players
Converted at weaktight.com

Stacks:
UTG ($1.45)
UTG 1 ($11.24)
MP ($10.56)
CO ($2.25)
BTN ($15.79)
SB ($9.90)
Hero ($9.77)

Pre-flop: ($0.15, 7 players) Hero is BB :9c: :9d:
4 folds, BTN raises to $0.4, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.3

Flop: :9h: :4h: :8c: ($0.85, 2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $0.6, Hero raises to $2.65, BTN folds

Final Pot: $4.1

Hero wins $4 ( won $0.95 )
BTN lost -$1.00


When you're playing against me, know that about half my flop bets are cbets. The key is play back on the right half. Good luck at the tables!!

For the rest of y'all, Frosst was up half a buy-in in the 20 minutes I was there, so don't feel sorry for him :lol:

thanks for the pic robb. are you using combined stats 1 on the hud? also did you have to mess with the placement of the numbers in the layout manager to adapt for the mini view? And finally, do you have the tables set to "pop to front"? the first hand i had AJo. The second hand i had A5o, and was on a blind steal. So its not that I thought you were pushing me around as it was I had little to play with vs your pfr calling range. With your stats being 11/10 over 959 hands, I wasn't expecting to be facing junk. :D o btw, you c-bet 65% of the time...k thx lol

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Originally Posted by frosst

thanks for the pic robb. are you using combined stats 1 on the hud? also did you have to mess with the placement of the numbers in the layout manager to adapt for the mini view? the first hand i had AJo. The second hand i had A5o, and was on a blind steal. So its not that I thought you were pushing me around as it was I had little to play with vs your pfr calling range. With your stats being 11/10 over 959 hands, I wasn't expecting to be facing junk. :D o btw, you c-bet 65% of the time...k thx lol

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I'm using my own reconfigured combined stats both above and below in the UB FR mini layout. The bottom three stats are VP$P/PFR/AF. The top two are Hands/FoldsCbet%. In my 6max mini-layout, I have both CallsCbet%/RaisesCbet%. Here, there's not room.

The stats are color-coded. The "Hands" turn bright blue > 100, and I have "green light" settings for all the others which mean "attack now." I also have one or two "red light" settings which mean "whoa, baby, think about this one!"

Over on Absolute, the Hands stat turns bright orange > 100, with the I CallsCbet%/RaisesCbet% configuration in the secondary stats.

About my cbetting - at NL10, yes, I cbet 65% - 70% of the time, sometimes more, but I do it all with reads on villains related to stack sizes, value of my hand (usually thin, often anorexic, but rarely nonexistant), table conditions, position, etc. I played enough hands at those two sites to have great reads on 3/4's of the table every time I sat down.

Now that I've moved up to NL25, I cbet a good bit less. I don't have as many good reads, and I'm playing fewer tables and fewer hands (and not datamining). As I get more hands on common opponents, I'm opening up slightly. But the bottom line is that I cbet a lot, and try hard to make it look like I just hit my hand. You've just got to decide when you think I'm full of shit and play back. Just like with anyone else.

Hey Robb ... I spend most of my time at UB too, and all my new $25NL time there. Sorry is off topic, but have you figured out their new RAI$E bonus structure. I'm convinced the changes translate into me getting scrood, just can't quite prove it... :shock:

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Originally Posted by Robb

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Originally Posted by frosst

thanks for the pic robb. are you using combined stats 1 on the hud? also did you have to mess with the placement of the numbers in the layout manager to adapt for the mini view? the first hand i had AJo. The second hand i had A5o, and was on a blind steal. So its not that I thought you were pushing me around as it was I had little to play with vs your pfr calling range. With your stats being 11/10 over 959 hands, I wasn't expecting to be facing junk. :D o btw, you c-bet 65% of the time...k thx lol

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I'm using my own reconfigured combined stats both above and below in the UB FR mini layout. The bottom three stats are VP$P/PFR/AF. The top two are Hands/FoldsCbet%. In my 6max mini-layout, I have both CallsCbet%/RaisesCbet%. Here, there's not room.

The stats are color-coded. The "Hands" turn bright blue > 100, and I have "green light" settings for all the others which mean "attack now." I also have one or two "red light" settings which mean "whoa, baby, think about this one!"

Over on Absolute, the Hands stat turns bright orange > 100, with the I CallsCbet%/RaisesCbet% configuration in the secondary stats.

About my cbetting - at NL10, yes, I cbet 65% - 70% of the time, sometimes more, but I do it all with reads on villains related to stack sizes, value of my hand (usually thin, often anorexic, but rarely nonexistant), table conditions, position, etc. I played enough hands at those two sites to have great reads on 3/4's of the table every time I sat down.

Now that I've moved up to NL25, I cbet a good bit less. I don't have as many good reads, and I'm playing fewer tables and fewer hands (and not datamining). As I get more hands on common opponents, I'm opening up slightly. But the bottom line is that I cbet a lot, and try hard to make it look like I just hit my hand. You've just got to decide when you think I'm full of shit and play back. Just like with anyone else.

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thanks again robb, this leaves alot of room on my monitor now (will be able to keep pokerstove more accessable.....and i was just kidding with you about the c-bets. i forgot about stuff like that not translating well over the net. so do you use the pop up stats, since you'll have to maximize the table in order to do so?

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Originally Posted by sarbox68

Hey Robb ... I spend most of my time at UB too, and all my new $25NL time there. Sorry is off topic, but have you figured out their new RAI$E bonus structure. I'm convinced the changes translate into me getting scrood, just can't quite prove it... :shock:

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I've got no idea how the new UB Points/RAI$E shit works. I know this. In February, I earned exactly 30% of what PokerTracker said my rake should be. So my rakeback is fine.

The only way to turn in UB Points for $$ in the "old days" was to use them as buy-ins to cash MTT's and win something - or use them for Hellmuth hats in the UB store.

Now, if you're at the "Legend" level (2nd highest level of 5), you can trade in 30k points for cash. I'm accumulating the points at about the same rate as before, but I started out at Legend because I was there for a couple of months before the switch multitabling like a fiend. I think I might lose one rung in the status ladder by April or June, unless I can start 15 tabling NL25.

Upshot is, noobies to UB are probably getting scroood, like you say. But I don't think I am - I'm earning points at Legend level at about the same rate as before the RAI$E BS began.

BTW, I play ArsenalRocks at UB and Absolute. Look me up when you're playing NL25 over there.

How to multitable

1) open one table
2) learn to ball
3) open another table
4) repeat steps 2-3

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Originally Posted by sarbox68

Hey Robb ... I spend most of my time at UB too, and all my new $25NL time there. Sorry is off topic, but have you figured out their new RAI$E bonus structure. I'm convinced the changes translate into me getting scrood, just can't quite prove it... :shock:

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No, you aren't getting screwed. Before it changed over, it took 20 ultimate points earned to release $1 in bonus. With the new raise bonus, you can earn the bonus quicker, but only when you reach at least legend status. At that level, you earn that $1 12.5% quicker (as it takes only 70 UB points instead of 80). Although at icon status, you earn that $1 only 10% quicker. Don't know why they did it like that though. My question is whether its worth it to redeem points for cash.....just doesn't seem like a fair trade in terms of amount of points for cash given......though i dont know what else i'd use it on since most of the items in the UB store suck.........we should probably rename this thread to "UB General Knowledge and multitabling tips" Sorry bout the hijack seren

I can confirm, that the new bonus structure at UB is screwing me at 10nl. I never expected to clear it all there, but wanted to add to my winrate.

Before they made the change, I played about 9600 hands there, clearing just over $30 in bonus. Then, after the change, it took me 4000 hands to clear the first $5 chunk.

I call that screwed.

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Originally Posted by Hawkfan79

I can confirm, that the new bonus structure at UB is screwing me at 10nl. I never expected to clear it all there, but wanted to add to my winrate.

Before they made the change, I played about 9600 hands there, clearing just over $30 in bonus. Then, after the change, it took me 4000 hands to clear the first $5 chunk.

I call that screwed.

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just saying what the website goes. for me personally, im getting $5 every 100 UB points or so, so to me it hasnt changed