noobing a small pocket pair

I'm a n00b, so feel free to berate me for my foolishness. I was definitely also on tilt from a seriously bad player sucking out on me in a massive pot moments before, so I know I didn't play this one with a sound mind.

... and I guess I can't post links or images without having ten posts first, so I guess I'll just modify the raw output. I'm "T":

HOLDEM NO LIMIT $0.10 - 2008-02-22 00:37:45 (ET)
Table: JA (Real Money) Seat #5 is the dealer
Seat 5 - TR ($5.72 in chips)
Seat 6 - PM ($3.80 in chips)
Seat 1 - KJ ($2.71 in chips)
Seat 2 - JB ($4.92 in chips)
Seat 3 - T ($20.45 in chips)
PM - Posts small blind $0.05
KJ - Posts big blind $0.10
*** POCKET CARDS ***
Dealt to T [5d 5h]
JB - Calls $0.10
T - Calls $0.10
TR - Calls $0.10
PM - Folds
KJ - Checks
*** FLOP *** [Kc 4c 5s]
KJ1 - Checks
JB - Bets $0.30
T - Raises $0.60 to $0.60
TR - Folds
KJ - Folds
JB - Calls $0.30
*** TURN *** [Kc 4c 5s] [Ac]
JB - Checks
T - Bets $0.60
JB - Calls $0.60
*** RIVER *** [Kc 4c 5s Ac] [Qd]
JB - Checks
T - Bets $1
JB - Raises $2.40 to $2.40
T - Calls $1.40
*** SHOW DOWN ***
JB - Shows [8c 6c] (Flush, ace high)
T - Mucks
JB Collects $7.30 from main pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total Pot($7.65) | Rake ($0.35)
Board [Kc 4c 5s Ac Qd]
Seat 1: KJ (big blind) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 2: JB won Total ($7.30) HI:($7.30) with Flush, ace high [8c 6c - B:Ac,B:Kc,P:8c,P:6c,B:4c]
Seat 3: T HI: [Mucked] [5d 5h]
Seat 5: TR (dealer) Folded on the FLOP
Seat 6: PM (small blind) Folded on the POCKET CARDS

I'm certain I should have re-raised stronger after the flop for fear of him chasing the flush. How much though? Outside that mistake what else should I have done to win this one, or at least minimize the damage? I tend to play pretty aggressively and it seems like people slow play like nuts now that I've moved from play money to micro limits. Where would you have cooled it suspecting he hit the flush? I'm thinking the river. Thoughts?

The first thing I'd say is to find a better table, with so many short-stacks it's difficult to get value from your good hands. Normally I'd raise this pre-flop 4x + 1 for the limper, but with all the short-stacks I'm not so sure. Reraise should be 3.5x on the flop, as played you're just sweetening the pot for him. Played optimally you lose this hand, but you need to charge im to chase his draw. when you hit the set try and get the money as quickly as possible, since you can't fold in this hand.

And don't post results, it's difficult to get good answers.

lol that table is awesome

#1 - ALWAYS raise, never limp, pre flop.
#2 - make a real raise on flop.
#3 - other then bet sizing its fine.

and also yeah dont post results if you dont want biased responses.

I personally dont give a rats ass about results being posted. We should all be able to know results and still look at the hand theoretically without missing a beat.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by will641

#1 - ALWAYS raise, never limp, pre flop.

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Limping 55 behind these types of players is fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by will641

#1 - ALWAYS raise, never limp, pre flop.

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Limping 55 behind these types of players is fine.

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ya +1 IMO. Just don't min-raise ever.

i think limping is a good choice in a lot of situations at these games because they so often open limp utg with a few followers and if you are on the button with a nice Sc/Sg surely its better just to limp and if you hit hard make some fish with TP pay the price. remember that fish don't really understand how to play in big multi-way pots; they don't seem to realise that the value of hands like bottom two pair diminish and are no longer 'guaranteed winners'. i have seen a lot of guys in like a 6max micro family pot stack off quite willingly with TPNK etc.

but yea. maybe with 1limper before me i might raise a small pp but it's situational and i wouldn't do it all the time. limping isnt always bad!

also, i had some problems reading the HH. When it says stuff like 'raises $0.60 to $0.60' is that supposed to be 'to 0.90' or are you using software i'm not used to? and those player names like KJ really confused me!

manners

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by will641

#1 - ALWAYS raise, never limp, pre flop.

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Limping 55 behind these types of players is fine.

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on this table with all the short stacks, i agree. On a table w/ full stacks im raising this all day.

Yeah, I apologize for the output. It will be much cleaner when I have ten posts under my belt. I like to show the results, but if I could have posted the converted hand history code it would have been hidden as white text.

Do you really raise pre-flop that liberally? I learned my preflop play from a nifty pre-flop simulator off of a site called kingscascade (which I can't post a link to because I'm a noob). The author is primarily a limit player, but he advocates a lot of limping with smaller suited connectors and small pairs. If you look it up I'd appreciate your feedback on that too, it's just an Excel download.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bode

Quote:

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Originally Posted by JL

Quote:

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Originally Posted by will641

#1 - ALWAYS raise, never limp, pre flop.

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Limping 55 behind these types of players is fine.

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on this table with all the short stacks, i agree. On a table w/ full stacks im raising this all day.

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yeah i didnt notice how many shorties there were, but its good to make a habit out of it. i doubt this is the only circumstance he's limping here either.

You're right, that's not the only time I'm limping with a small pocket pair. I really would like a critique of that preflop simulator I mentioned. My original intention was to play limit holdem, but I found I was much better at NL. I made the switch without ever really considering that my pre-flop education came from a limit holdem tool.

I still can't post links but if you Google "Preflop simulator" (with the quotes) then you should get the kingscascade preflop simulator as the first result.

Playing with that for a few minutes should give you an idea of how I'm playing pre-flop, and hopefully there is an easy adjustment to my play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by trump

Do you really raise pre-flop that liberally?

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Big time. Vs these shorties it's bad though.

Raising when we have position is so awesome. It's is easily one of the most important things we can do. Donkey limps UTG and I'm MP I'm isolating him with stuff like 67 often. I'm sure we make almost all of our money in position against bad players. Shit I think if the entire table limps and I have 67 OTB I should be raising often.