a little ISF for ya?

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02-19-2008, 03:20 AM
will641

a little ISF for ya?

villain is i guess lagg (25/22/4), but definitely a thinking opponent. my thinking here is he could be raising 22-99, and any 9, but im pretty sure i can get him off all those besides 99 and 22 obv. because im repping an over pair.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (5 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP ($207)
Button ($392)
Hero ($236.70)
BB ($320.35)
UTG ($40.05)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif. UTG posts a blind of $2.
UTG (poster) checks, MP calls $2, Button calls $2, Hero raises to $16, BB calls $14, UTG folds, MP folds, Button folds.

Flop: ($38) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $28, BB raises to $63, Hero raises to $220.7, BB folds.

Final Pot: $164
02-19-2008, 03:22 AM
will641

oh yeah and also he raises air a good amount here since the board is so dry.
02-19-2008, 03:27 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

I would be like "yes yes awesome" but i'm worried that he's going to spite call because of yeti theorem.
02-19-2008, 03:35 AM
BigLRIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

oh yeah and also he raises air a good amount here since the board is so dry.

and yeah i like this
02-19-2008, 07:12 AM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

I would be like "yes yes awesome" but i'm worried that he's going to spite call because of yeti theorem.

This worries me too
02-19-2008, 08:31 AM
Ragnar4

WTH is yeti theorem?
02-19-2008, 09:49 AM
Halv

Value shove yo!
02-19-2008, 11:14 AM
pocketfours

This is actually a much better play with AK than with 77 and I see players taking this line with AK all the time.

It is very easy to realize that shoving here with AK is +EV, but it's much harder to see that it can be +EV to do it with any hand against the right opponent. WP!
02-19-2008, 11:21 AM
Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

WTH is yeti theorem?

Nobody has anything on these types of boards, so you should be shoving a lot basically. And I like OP play with reads.
02-19-2008, 11:29 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

WTH is yeti theorem?

Yeti theorem "a 3-bet on a dry paired board is a bluff"
02-19-2008, 12:00 PM
Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

I would be like "yes yes awesome" but i'm worried that he's going to spite call because of yeti theorem.

A spite call would be good here no?
02-19-2008, 12:05 PM
will641

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

I would be like "yes yes awesome" but i'm worried that he's going to spite call because of yeti theorem.

A spite call would be good here no?

eh we hadnt gotten into enough pots yet for him to want to spite call me.

and yeah pocketfours, i was thinking about it, and i would rather be doing this with AK, but the opportunity presented itself with 77 so....
02-19-2008, 02:50 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

This is actually a much better play with AK than with 77 and I see players taking this line with AK all the time.

It is very easy to realize that shoving here with AK is +EV, but it's much harder to see that it can be +EV to do it with any hand against the right opponent. WP!

100% agree
02-19-2008, 03:32 PM
nutsinho

no one is worried about how strong he looks preflop?
02-19-2008, 05:03 PM
noble007

Only my opinion but against an aggressive opponent , I prefer to call flop and shove raise turn, (or call if he shoves)

His range is heavily weighted towards a bluff obv and a flop shove is a very expensive way to get him to fold his bluffs and pays him off the 10-20% of the time he actually has you beat. (I also think you get looked up by alot of 9's just because of Yeti theorem as mentioned.)
But as he's likely drawing to 2 maybe 6 outs and a very aggressive player will make the mistake of following up on most turns, I think this line maximises your value.

& I also think as it looks like a much stronger line (AA/KK /Set) than re-raising such a dry paired flop you actually have just as good a chance if not better of getting him to fold a 9 (although in this case he wouild be getting awesome pot odds.)
02-19-2008, 05:38 PM
BigLRIP

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by pocketfours

This is actually a much better play with AK than with 77 and I see players taking this line with AK all the time.

It is very easy to realize that shoving here with AK is +EV, but it's much harder to see that it can be +EV to do it with any hand against the right opponent. WP!

100% agree

Are talking about a random opponent, or the one in the OP (when saying shoving with AK is better than 77)? I think you're trying to say that AK does better against his calling range, which seems to be mostly 9x, but if villain is capable of calling with stuff like 66-33, it must become way more close.
02-19-2008, 06:30 PM
Marshall28

when i do this type of stuff successfully it's a game flow/table dynamic situation. when villain knows that i've been beating down on him and is likely to give me no credit AND i figure smaller pr's than 7s to be in range.

I make these types of plays A LOT but you have to have the right feel for it, if you don't feel it in your gut that he is fed up w/ u it's probably turning your hand into a bluff.

it's something that has to be done at the right time against the right villain
02-19-2008, 06:31 PM
Marshall28

otherwise like everybody else said, bluffing/value jamming w/ AK here is much better as when you get called you will still have 25% equity, w/ 77 that's probably not the case.
02-19-2008, 07:23 PM
Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

WTH is yeti theorem?

Nobody has anything on these types of boards, so you should be shoving a lot basically. And I like OP play with reads.

That's not Yeti Theorem as I understood it at all. Yeti Theorem basically says a 3-bet on a paired board is almost always a bluff. I could be wrong though.
02-19-2008, 08:32 PM
will641

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galapogos

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deanglow

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ragnar4

WTH is yeti theorem?

Nobody has anything on these types of boards, so you should be shoving a lot basically. And I like OP play with reads.

That's not Yeti Theorem as I understood it at all. Yeti Theorem basically says a 3-bet on a paired board is almost always a bluff. I could be wrong though.

yeah this is right galapagos. however, i was unaware of any such theorems when i made this play :oops:
02-20-2008, 04:50 AM
wufwugy

Quote:

Originally Posted by nutsinho

no one is worried about how strong he looks preflop?

I've been thinking about this hand quite a bit. Partly because I cannot put villain on a hand/thought process. A big reason for that is pf. He just can't have any overpair there other than perhaps TT or maybe possibly iffy JJ. He doesn't necessarily look strong, he could easily just be liking his probable odds and position with standard cold calling hands.