KK 100 NL crappy turn.

villain is tagg 18/12/3 over big sample size. occasionally he goes on weird bluffs but nothing too crazy. my thinking in the heat of the moment i thought he would calling with AK or something, but now that i think about it looks way more like smaller over pair. comments on turn and river is what im looking for.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($131.90)
SB ($99)
Hero ($291.95)
UTG ($125.40)
MP ($131.30)
CO ($80.90)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $4, 1 fold, Button calls $4, 1 fold, Hero raises to $16, MP folds, Button calls $12.

Flop: ($36.50) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $24, Button calls $24.

Turn: ($84.50) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($84.50) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero...

bets 55

bet turn and c/c all but a push on river. flop looks like a cbet, and betting again on the A looks like AK just connected.

as played, bet 1/2 pot on river.

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Originally Posted by Chopper

bet turn and c/c all but a push on river. flop looks like a cbet, and betting again on the A looks like AK just connected.

as played, bet 1/2 pot on river.

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I like the turn check and now bet river. I'd play AK the same.

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Originally Posted by Chopper

betting again on the A looks like AK just connected.

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so why do we bet?

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Originally Posted by Pelion

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Originally Posted by Chopper

betting again on the A looks like AK just connected.

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so why do we bet?

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Yeah I also didn't get that....(which was why I bolded some of the quote, but that was probably not very obvious)

Button has a mid pocket pair, i would assume he would 3bet first with AK, right?

So i would take the line which gets most value out of a mid pocket pair once the Ace comes. ie i would assume c/c turn since he will bet more with his range than call on turn. also if he does check behind ill bet any river card for about 1/2 pot hoping he calls.

You can either bet turn and check call river or check turn and check call river, But i prefer betting the turn here and maybe putting a blocker bet on river, he raises i think you have to fold.

you played it fine, now c/c

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Originally Posted by minSim

I like the turn check and now bet river. I'd play AK the same.

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This will make you very exploitable if you 2 barrel scare cards(like a turned A) vs. thinking players. I would merge your range here rather than exploiting a single player if he's a thinking reg.

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Originally Posted by Pelion

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Originally Posted by Chopper

betting again on the A looks like AK just connected.

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so why do we bet?

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because MY lines tend to bet the card i hit when i hit it. you both are telling me that when you hold AK here, you get FPS and check? when you hit your card after a cbet, you give a free one with only TP?

i can see what you guys are saying about the A shutting down action from lesser hands, but i dont mind that here at all, personally. if i take it down here, fine with me. i am likely to shut down JJ from raising me and scaring me off my hand, and the draws arent going anywhere, but at least i charged them. the only things that beat me are the actual A's. and those should be gone after the cbet. so, i am likely ahead and fairly safe now.

therefore, its more of a valuebet, to me.

Betting turn > checking

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Originally Posted by Silly String

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Originally Posted by minSim

I like the turn check and now bet river. I'd play AK the same.

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This will make you very exploitable if you 2 barrel scare cards(like a turned A) vs. thinking players. I would merge your range here rather than exploiting a single player if he's a thinking reg.

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This makes a lot of sense

Betting turn is +EV in a vacuum anyway afaik.

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Originally Posted by WildBobAA

you played it fine, now c/c

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I like this, but I can't tell if I like this better or b/f $50ish.

Opinions on c/c river:
Pros: You get max value from bluffs that would otherwise fold river.
Since villain AF = 3, you are likely to get a bet from 77-TT that may fold to river lead.
I can't get bluffed off b/c I'm calling any bet including push the way turn was played.

Cons: You lose value if villain thinks he has showdown value. Afterall we 3bet PF.

I guess maybe it comes down to if we think villain will bluff/value bet mid-pair.

i think it's pretty clear that his flop calling range doesn't contain many bare Aces or floats. If he had an FD it would mean he also had overs, poissibly high overs, meaning that he'd probably play i fast and raise the flop (although were not sure, and it's very plausible that he didn't raise it anyway). So he probably has a small overpair a lot of the time.

I'd probably bet the turn like 30-40, then c/puke call that river. By the river there's just not really any value from small overpairs so there's no poiint in betting. Hopefully he'll just check behind but if he bets he's probably bluffing enough for you to call any size.

well if im planning on a c/c on the river isnt it better to bet it, according to ISF?

c/c advocates - isn't villain checking behind a lot of his showdown value/bluffcatchers?

uh, river is a c/f or b/f, cannot believe all of the c/c talk

why would we ever want to c/c the river, we're smoked by his betting range.

After he checks the Ace behind & we check the river, I tend to disagree that we're smoked and this is a c/f. I think you get some value from underPPs 88-JJ.
You think he is floating an Ace as an 18/12/3 or do you think he plays the NFD this passive in a 3bet pot?

can his range be more than 33/55/77-99?

if we check it shouldn't be to induce a bluff all the time. It's not like that can be our rationale every time. What hands will he turn into bluffs on the river that he didn't do so with on the turn?

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

What hands will he turn into bluffs on the river that he didn't do so with on the turn?

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Exactly! This means he has showdown value..

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Originally Posted by will641

well if im planning on a c/c on the river isnt it better to bet it, according to ISF?

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Yes, unless you think there are hands in his range he is going to bluff.

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Originally Posted by Ash256

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

What hands will he turn into bluffs on the river that he didn't do so with on the turn?

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Exactly! This means he has showdown value..

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Meh, not really, showdown value on this board would have to be Ax or better against our range.

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

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Originally Posted by Ash256

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

What hands will he turn into bluffs on the river that he didn't do so with on the turn?

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Exactly! This means he has showdown value..

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Meh, not really, showdown value on this board would have to be Ax or better against our range.

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Shit, I forgot it was a 3bet pot

I bet this if that wasn't clear, but normally I bet the turn, but at your stakes its not really necessary/worthful.

whatever you do just don't bet the river.

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Originally Posted by Massimo

whatever you do just don't bet the river.

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Why? As played I definately bet this river, he's likely not calling the squeeze with suited trash. I say bet the river and get value from the very likely 77-JJ.

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Originally Posted by Massimo

whatever you do just don't bet the river.

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what

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

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Originally Posted by Massimo

whatever you do just don't bet the river.

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what

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Sorry, that was with the mindset that he bet the turn smallish.

as played u gotta bet this river, but normally id bet this turn since i do it with bluffs too

fwiw i bet $60 and he folded. i think it looked like a missed c/r with AK to him.