Was this a donk call?

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12-29-2007, 01:43 AM
pankfish

Was this a donk call?

I'm reading HOH and really trying to put villains on ranges and putting them against my pot odds. Is the call on the river a donk move. All I beat is a complete bluff, but he only has to be bluffing about 30% of the time for this to be profitable. Judging from his line I would say this is a bluff at least 50% of the time, especially with the missed straights and flushes on the board. I didn't think opponent was good enough to be value betting anything other than a deuce here and the only deuce I put in his range is A-2 of clubs which I can't give him more than 5-10% of the time here.

But he could have backed his way into any pair here, so I have to give him that. With his limp call I think I have to put missed over cards in his range, at least 20-25%. I think the missed flush draws more than make up for the rest of the hands in his range that I need to make this call.

Plus this makes me look super fishy, which can't be a bad thing.

Villain ran 56/10. I know that a raise here is definitely better. I'm just trying out calling more often when I see a bluff, while not trying to find a bluff in every situation. Inspired by Mcatdog's thread in the mtt section + HOH, even though Harrington probably would call this an easy fold.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($31.80)
SB ($61)
BB ($2.80)
UTG ($24.30)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.75.

Flop: ($2.35) 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $1.25, UTG calls $1.25.

Turn: ($4.85) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero checks.

River: ($4.85) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
UTG bets $2, Hero calls $2.

Final Pot: $8.85
12-29-2007, 02:33 AM
DaHorror

Your line is standard but I wouldn't expect to win here on the river much at all...your hand is pretty obvious (missed overs +/- draw) and if he was bluffing the river with a missed draw/air frankly I'd expect a bigger bet...looks like he's 2-paired up somewhere in there.
The call certainly isn't horrid or anything but I'm usually making it more based on reads and instinct than anything else.

Oh and I would tend to bet $1.50 - $1.80 on the flop for the best chance to take it down there...
12-29-2007, 09:29 AM
Chopper

i was thinking to bet the flop a buck-fitty, too. but, those are semantics, imo. if villain is calling $1.25 with a naked 6, he's calling a full psb there, too. at least thats what i am finding now. if someone wants to chase a draw, they want to chase it. not too much will deter them at these stakes.

i dont like the river call, but thats the nit in me.
12-29-2007, 10:58 AM
spoonitnow

I bet flop harder and think the river call is fine.
12-29-2007, 11:57 AM
pankfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

i was thinking to bet the flop a buck-fitty, too. but, those are semantics, imo. if villain is calling $1.25 with a naked 6, he's calling a full psb there, too. at least thats what i am finding now. if someone wants to chase a draw, they want to chase it. not too much will deter them at these stakes.

i dont like the river call, but thats the nit in me.

I'm not crazy about it myself. My question is with the missed draws, all low cards on the board, me checking through turn, is his bluff rate high enough for me to call? I agree I should have bet flop harder, and betting the turn for $3.50 probably takes this down a good number of the time.
12-29-2007, 04:21 PM
Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by pankfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

i was thinking to bet the flop a buck-fitty, too. but, those are semantics, imo. if villain is calling $1.25 with a naked 6, he's calling a full psb there, too. at least thats what i am finding now. if someone wants to chase a draw, they want to chase it. not too much will deter them at these stakes.

i dont like the river call, but thats the nit in me.

I'm not crazy about it myself. My question is with the missed draws, all low cards on the board, me checking through turn, is his bluff rate high enough for me to call? I agree I should have bet flop harder, and betting the turn for $3.50 probably takes this down a good number of the time.

yeah, i can see the bluff rate being high, but i dont like calling river bets at microstakes with A-high...even if its AK. it just sucks. too often i see the donkey with a naked bottom pair, or whatever hit the river.

your 2barrel brings up a valid question, too, though. i dont usually do it with AK, either. i used to, but thought it was spew. yes, it prolly works, but i dont know how well into a light-calling micro stakes player.

however, what i want to know is how to get action when the A or K hits the turn? i have seen this quite often, and when i value bet it, its as if i am betting a "scare card." they fold really quick...pissing me off. but, when i dont have the AK, they dont seem to fold as often. selective memory, i know.

but, when you hold AK and the A hits the turn, you bet it...right? or, do we tend to c/r on a dry board such as this one? just semantics, but i thought i'd ask.
12-30-2007, 12:05 AM
pankfish

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

yeah, i can see the bluff rate being high, but i dont like calling river bets at microstakes with A-high...even if its AK. it just sucks. too often i see the donkey with a naked bottom pair, or whatever hit the river.

your 2barrel brings up a valid question, too, though. i dont usually do it with AK, either. i used to, but thought it was spew. yes, it prolly works, but i dont know how well into a light-calling micro stakes player.

however, what i want to know is how to get action when the A or K hits the turn? i have seen this quite often, and when i value bet it, its as if i am betting a "scare card." they fold really quick...pissing me off. but, when i dont have the AK, they dont seem to fold as often. selective memory, i know.

but, when you hold AK and the A hits the turn, you bet it...right? or, do we tend to c/r on a dry board such as this one? just semantics, but i thought i'd ask.

I think 2barreling has a lot more to do with opponents and your table image than it does the cards you hold.

I'll almost always bet here with AK when the ace comes on the turn. I don't see what the point is in getting tricky with tptk. If I had 77 c/r would be a good play when the A hits.
12-30-2007, 12:41 AM
Chopper

i agree with not getting tricky w/ TPTK, but i dont think checking the turn is getting too tricky. it allows a lot of free looks at the river, which may backfire, but i think a lot of stuff you are ahead of folds to the A, and it may not if we check. we may induce a bluff. i'm not saying its the default play, i was just wondering how to max value out of a scary, dry board when the A likely kills action? dont read too much into it, it was just an off-the-top-of-the-head idea. in no way was it meant to be a standard play.

as for "image," dont take that too seriously, either. your image at a microstakes table like this amounts to crap. your opponents? yes, that matters. your image? not really, imo, unless you've been running really hot.