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A survey.
Just for my interest Id like to see who uses a HUD here and what they are playing. Posted here so both 6max and FR guys notice it. Can you please reply in the way below.
Name: Pelion
Game: 25NL
Number of tables: 4
HUD: Yes (but thinking of phasing it out).
50nl 6 max
4 tables
I think it's a big help for me, if your thinking of phasing it out do you have the right combo of stats on your hud?
This thread was helpful for me I use a similar variation to this:
http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...oker-37745.htm
Name: 2_Thumbs_Up
Game: 400NL
Number of tables: 6-9 (depending on whether I play FR or SH)
HUD: Yes
add a poll. me like polls.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
game: 200NL
tables: 10-11
HUD: no
bots obviously don't need HUDs
game 100-200nl FR
tables: 6-8 depending on stakes
HUD: no but i think i might try to add one to see if it helps.
awwwwQuote:
Originally Posted by PapalRage
whoops, i think hugs while playing would be distracting...kinda like i have found HUDs in my limited experience with them.
7-8 tables 6 max 200nl
HUD: yes
As a side note I played for several months with out one, but I find I use it almost every hand now. I think its value is in what stats are in your HUD.
Name: ipndedurmumsbutt
Number of tables: 1 coffee, one end
Huggles: Yes please
Alright alright I'll bite
Name: Spenda
Number of tables: 6 6max; 9 Full Ring; 2 HU
HUD: Yes
I'd use two Huds If I can find out how.
Game: 25NL
Number of tables: 4
HUD: Yes (but not thinking of phasing it out).
Name: R3sistance
Number of tables: Used to be 8-16, but now I've moved sites to a place with shitty software, 4-6 for now.
HUD: Hell yeah.
Name: Vrax
Game: 25NL
Number of tables: 8
HUD: No (incompatible HH)
Game: 100NL/ 50NL
No. tables. 2@100nl/ 4@50nl
HUD: Yes, but played for a year without one (without any obvious effect on my win/loss rate)
Game: 200NL SH /400NL FR
Number of tables: 4-7.
HUD: No/Yes. I havnt used it before but I'm adding it atm. Thinking that some basic info cant hurt as long as I dont base my game around the stats alone.
Game: 100NL 6max
Tables: 4
HUD: yes. I mainly use it for identifying player types, not really for basing specific plays on specific stats.
Game: 50NL 6max
Tables: 4
HUD: yes, only recently though. still figuring it out, but I do think it can be valuable.
Game: 50nl-100nl 6max
# tables: 8
HUD: ldo
Game: 2/4 -> 5/10 6max
Tables: 4-6
HUD: hell yes
i still fail to see why people wouldnt use a HUD. I understand the notion that we should be getting real reads on people, but its not like a HUD can hurt.
Name: SandInMyVagina
Game: 50nl/pl 5max & 6max
Tables: 3-5
HUD: Yes (gametime+)
Game: 100NL 6-max
Tables: 6
HUD: Yessir
Game 200nl/400nl 6max
Tables 4 (sometimes 6)
Hud rarely (and i still use GT even then)
bode ist (yea you are) I know players who use HUDs as a crutch and I dont want that to be me.
Miff sometimes you confuse me
Pelion wtf is ur problem, why does ur room smell of egg sandwhich right now?!?! - best not to ask eh?
Game 200NL 6 max (300NL because its in €)
Tables: 5-6
Hud:offcourse
ignoring the randomness, why?Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
i was drunk and thought u said u didnt use PT but you used GT+...
Lol at people who dont use hud.
lol at those who couldnt just beat their opponents without needing an aide.Quote:
Originally Posted by wufwugy
My old arguement, your opponents are so bad most of the time in micro/small stakes, you dont need to know what they are doing to beat them.
Midstakes is much different and i can see why a HUD works. Also, odd that a lot of balla's dont use HUD's. Gabe for example never has
you dont NEED a HUD to beat the micro/small stakes, but it only helps to beat it for a greater winrate assuming you dont use it as a crutch.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
6-maxQuote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
9 tables
NL10/NL25
Miffed and I have gone back and forth on this one before. I simultaneously added the HUD and active participation in FTR to my poker hobby, and became a winning player almost overnight. No offense, because FTR is awesome, and has helped my game. But the HUD has helped more, letting me learn things faster and understand WHY plays work and what common situations I'm facing. They actually work well together, seeing a HH and analysis, understanding the villain's HUD stats and tendencies, then incorporating FTR advice into a new line or way to attack.
I agree with you there. But I already understand ranges now. I dont think there is much more that using a HUD can teach me... but there might be something that not using one could teach me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
Im sure that in the short term using a HUD will boost my winrate, but does anyone think that in the long term you become a better player without one?
yes, thsi has been my point all along. So many 100nl players who cannot turn off their HUDs and explain their decisions without stats.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pelion
maybe its worth using but with a session or two a week without
FUCK HUDs
Poker is a game of incomplete information, where more info trumps less. If my opponents are using HUD's, I'm giving up an edge. I've got no idea how many microstakes players are using them, but I have come across a few. LoL. One guy read out his PT stats on me (only had 75 HH's, and his read was way off). As you move up stakes, giving up an informational edge seems silly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
I'm not saying the game can't be beaten without a HUD. It can, and I can do it (at NL10). I just think I win a lot more with the HUD because I can play more tables with a better win rate in BB/100 than I can HUD-less.
chopper
10NL,25NL,50NL,.25/.50FL,.50/1FL
6max, 3-4.......FR, 4-6
yes, but do turn it off on occasion for above mentioned reasons.
allright, besides i feel that you can become too dependent on a HUD. i use if for the basics (loose or tight, aggressive/passive) and thats about it. i track all kinds of stuff on myself, though.
i dont see what the hell a "folds to river raise" stat means to me when i have 1000 hands on a guy, but only been to the river with him about 50 times. way too small of a sample, imo.
HUD stats I use and WHY:
Combined line 1: Basics
Hands/VPIP/PFR/TAF
Combined line 2: Fold to /cbet stuff
Folds to Cbet/folds to trun bet/ folds to river bet/raise cbet
These are all color coordinated.
Combined line 3:Steal Stats
Call PFR/ATT to steal/ Fold BB to steal/ Bets river
These are also color coodinated
I rarely use Line 1, it is just the basics. Fold to cbet and calls PFR I use to determine if I raise a limper with junk, especailly out of the blinds. If they limp alot then call then fold == $$$. I use fold to turn for double barrels, and along with bets river to determine if I should check behind or fire again. There are alot of players who fold when you bet turn, but bluff the hell out of the river. Using PFR and att to steal I can get a good idea of a players UTG raise %. I am sure there is more, but I get a good idea of what they are doing postflop, and how they play their hands without watching them ultra close. I also take notes when they raise or 3bet a hand not in their normal % range(ie a 15/10 raises 54s UTG). You don't always get a good read on the regs without detailed notes, but this helps me ID the fish quickly and gives me lines on who folds and who I can Vbet the fuck out of.
Note: My popup on PAHUD doesn't work so these are the only stats I have or use.
fypQuote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
HUD hate is very misguided. It's an invaluable tool for the large majority of multitablers. There are a rare few who do well without it, but c'mon, there are a rare few of a lot of things. Put in its most simple form, HUD makes it much easier to identify player styles, tendencies, and skill levels. Nobody who uses HUD correctly makes decisions based off the HUD exclusively.
I can list off hand after hand after hand after hand of thin thin value that I got due to HUD aid. HUDs tell you a lot about how to play the opponents. Nobody, not even the best non-HUD users can play a lot of tables vs relatively unknowns and have as good of reads as a skilled HUD user.
Fighting against HUD is a losing battle. Not everbody should use it, I guess maybe, but most should. The argument that it stunts skill growth is also bollocks.
But please, don't you HUD. It'll make my job easier since you'll likely be less aided vs me. And I used to be anti-HUD, but that was before I started using it and my winrate shot up. Actually learning how to use the stats is kinda hard and a significant factor that many don't realize.
lol @ ppl who dont need a HUD, srsly if u multitable its a must have.dont care what stakes
We dont state that a HUD doesnt or does give you an edge, or that your giving it up, its about how a HUD stunts your development from a small stakes to midstakes and high stakes poker player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Robb
If you dont understand what people are doing without an aide, how will you know when the aide doesnt help and everyone is the same, adapting to your play, as what happens in mid/high stakes games.
Sure, you can win a few extra bbs/100 at 10nl 100nl or w/e but it also stops you watching and learning and observing tables.
i always find it funny when people pots reads: 24/12, that tells you nothing other than your opponents approx range, it doesnt tell you about his tendancies, which non-HUD users can tell you about after 5mins at a tbale with every player.
the reality of HUDS is whether your a 12 tabling moron who will grind out a winrate but never really kill games, or if you are a 4-6 tabler who has a more substantial winrate and is a better player.
24/12 says a lot, and the more skilled somebody is at the game and at understanding HUD stats the more it says.
Using HUD is not what stunts growth. Midstakes are hard, and require a shitton of skill. They're substantially harder than the highest stakes of three years ago. I honestly do not know how to respond to the statement that HUD stunts development. That's just such a weird thing to say. Does PT stunt growth?
Miffed knows about a zillion times more than I do about mid stakes and high stakes. I know this - I was a losing player that was about ready to quit because I'd pissed $300 down the poker chute. I got a HUD and learned some much basically overnight that I was a winning player. The HUD has seriously helped my learning curve be steeper - no hindrances. Now that the game is becoming more readable, maybe I should go HUD-less a while. I don't know. But I know now that I have a hobby that pays for itself, and I've won back ALL the money I've lost plus the money invested in PT and HUD.Quote:
Originally Posted by Miffed22001
Checked PT and here are my NL10 winrates (about 20k hands per month, so small sample, but for what it's worth):
Oct: 6.7 BB/100
Nov: 9.3 BB/100
Dec: 10.7 BB/100
I've also gone from 4 tables in October to 8 or 9 tables currently, which is why the months all have roughly 20k in them. That's my learning curve, and I'm getting better each week. I feel like I've just barely learned the game enough to rack up baby wins, take baby steps. But I'm confident at this level I can win, can build br, can grind. Maybe some day, when I'm a midstakes player that's plateaued, I'll think back to these back-and-forths with Miffed and say to myself: "You know, losing the HUD for 100k hands might really help me learn something here." But you know what? Without the HUD I was done with poker, and was never getting even to NL50. With the HUD I might just make it up there to NL200 and have a chance to learn more advanced skills.
For some us, poker is a hobby, and we're just happy that it pays for itself plus a little. If the HUD gets me there, and no better, I'm okay with that. It's a damn site better than where I was.
100nl, 14-16 tables, I use a HUD
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaNutsInYoEye
I SECOND THIS MOTION
lol, a fitting 1200th post
Name: Jack
Game: 25 NLH/PLH/PLO, 50 NLH/PLH/PLO, mostly but not exclusively 6-max
Tables: 2.5 avg, 4 max
HUDs: never have, never will
Name: HalvSame
Game: 400NL 6m
Tables: 4-14
HUD: yeah, Im pretty much a bot.