Few hu hands vs Pooruser

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12-07-2007, 10:08 AM
sauce123

Few hu hands vs Pooruser

We both are pretty aggro, he is good/tricky. I may have been tilting a bit for some of these :(

Hand1:
POKERSTARS GAME #13703102712: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($5/$10) - 2007/12/07 - 07:49:46 (ET)
Table 'Sualocin' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($2446 in chips)
Seat 2: PoorUser ($1054 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $5
PoorUser: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [Qh 7h]
Sauce123: raises $20 to $30
PoorUser: calls $20
*** FLOP *** [4d 9c 8c]
PoorUser: checks
Sauce123: checks
*** TURN *** [4d 9c 8c] [Qd]
PoorUser: bets $50
Sauce123: raises $120 to $170
PoorUser: calls $120
*** RIVER *** [4d 9c 8c Qd] [Qc]
PoorUser: checks
Sauce123: bets $265
PoorUser: raises $589 to $854 and is all-in

Hand2:
POKERSTARS GAME #13703239919: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($5/$10) - 2007/12/07 - 08:05:17 (ET)
Table 'Parthenope' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($1029.50 in chips)
Seat 2: PoorUser ($2660.50 in chips)
PoorUser: posts small blind $5
Sauce123: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [9c Jc]
PoorUser: raises $30 to $40
Sauce123: calls $30
*** FLOP *** [Kd Qs 3d]
Sauce123: checks
PoorUser: checks
*** TURN *** [Kd Qs 3d] [2h]
Sauce123: bets $60
PoorUser: calls $60
*** RIVER *** [Kd Qs 3d 2h] [5d]
Sauce123: bets $175
PoorUser: raises $295 to $470
Sauce123: raises $459.50 to $929.50 and is all-in

Hand3:
POKERSTARS GAME #13703146282: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($5/$10) - 2007/12/07 - 07:54:44 (ET)
Table 'Sualocin' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($1030 in chips)
Seat 2: PoorUser ($2701 in chips)
PoorUser: posts small blind $5
Sauce123: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [Jc Ks]
PoorUser: raises $30 to $40
Sauce123: calls $30
*** FLOP *** [Qc Qs 4s]
Sauce123: checks
PoorUser: bets $60
Sauce123: raises $120 to $180
PoorUser: calls $120
*** TURN *** [Qc Qs 4s] [8s]
Sauce123: bets $365

Hand4:
POKERSTARS GAME #13703458725: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($5/$10) - 2007/12/07 - 08:28:40 (ET)
Table 'Sualocin' 2-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: Sauce123 ($2237 in chips)
Seat 2: PoorUser ($2665.50 in chips)
Sauce123: posts small blind $5
PoorUser: posts big blind $10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to Sauce123 [Qh Kh]
Sauce123: raises $20 to $30
PoorUser: calls $20
*** FLOP *** [Ts Ks Kd]
PoorUser: checks
Sauce123: bets $40
PoorUser: raises $80 to $120
Sauce123: raises $100 to $220
PoorUser: raises $390 to $610
Sauce123: calls $390
*** TURN *** [Ts Ks Kd] [5s]
PoorUser: bets $2025.50 and is all-in
Sauce123 said, "gross"
PoorUser said, "fascinating turn"
12-07-2007, 10:21 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Hand 1: I don't see how this could be a good c/r bluff spot so i fold. I did see the results though but looking at it objectively, I think your range is evenly distrubuted but the thing is the only air he could have is like T7, I think he'd rather call pairs then turn them into bluffs.

Hand 2: This could be sick if he could make a huge fold but i doubt it versus u. Also, his range seems kind of polar too so this may not make much sense to him because your repping such a thin range.

Hand 3: This seems bad, I think he's folding too little of his range.

Hand 4: I'd just put it in on the flop but as played I don't see how we can't fold the turn unless he think we're going to fold a flush.
12-07-2007, 10:24 AM
bode

hand 1 seems like a decent spot to "rebluff" in his eyes. your image is (assuming) so aggro that he thinks you try to rep a Q here as a bluff enough. I call hand 1.
12-07-2007, 12:18 PM
IowaSkinsFan

What's the your thinnest vbet on hand 1, K9?
12-07-2007, 06:28 PM
jackvance

My little contribution here would be to say that I love these hands.
12-07-2007, 10:19 PM
pocketfours

1. I can't put him on many hands that you beat. Possibly T7s, but does he expect you to fold a Q here? I'm folding.

2. Pretty sick, but I don't mind it. You will get value from this later if he calls.

3. I like this 100%. If you check raise the flop with air, then you should lead the turn if you don't improve EVERY TIME, but the value of that is mostly in the metagame. But shut down now, ok?

4. Very easy fold. I would have kept raising on the flop though.
12-09-2007, 01:39 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

what was the timing on hand 1 on his turn call?
12-10-2007, 08:09 AM
The Grouch

(1) Fold
(2) Very sick, i'll hold off comment until i put more thought into it
(3) Double C/R here for sure
(4) Get in on flop, having failed to do that now fold
12-10-2007, 09:43 PM
Bmxicle

Do you guys have some sick flush hitting the turn dynamic or something i mean wtf.

hand 1) fold, he isn't cr bluffing here enough, this looks like a nciely planned out boat or flush.

2) a) raising the river as a bluff like that isn't that common to begin with, so he either has a flush which = him insta calling you, or he realizes that you are not checking your FD here the vast majority of the time on the flop and is gonna pick off your shove with great odds here.

3) This is fine, the percentage of the time you are following through here is much more relevant than what actually happened. I can't give you a percent to follow through as i don't know the dynamics, and i haven't played poor user since party days.

4) i agree with isf just go arrin and suck out on his tt.
12-10-2007, 10:31 PM
gabe

pooruser is one of those people who thinks about the game all wrong but its so wrong that he is a winning player
12-10-2007, 10:39 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Very interested in what you mean gabe
12-10-2007, 11:00 PM
gabe

read these
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...9172256&Words=

also this post from vanveen in a different thread
"what many on this forum seem to overlook or just not comprehend is that once you've learned the 'basics' of the game there is a fair bit of chance involved in just how successful your overall strategy manages to be once it has 'congealed'. much of the analysis on this forum from well known long-time winners is often wrong or incomplete, yet they manage to win because they play reasonably tight, avoid making highly exploitable errors, and are fortunate enough to choose frequencies that 'work' into an overall strategy(hi grimstarr!). "
12-10-2007, 11:02 PM
gabe

this too to a lesser extent

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...n=&page=0&vc=1
12-10-2007, 11:57 PM
sauce123

which one are you, Gabe?
12-11-2007, 12:03 AM
gabe

rational
12-11-2007, 12:19 AM
sauce123

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

rational

btw i like the strassa post but think the zjustin post was basically poorly thought out and not necessarily correct as theres a gigantic amount of grey area and i think he likely underestimates how rational Ozzy or other of his illogical players actually think even though they may only be estimating.

for instance i rarely look at potsize anymore, or replay the hand in my head when making a critical decision: as the statement "im getting X to 1" is not nearly as important as how often i think hes bluffing, how thin i think hes value betting, what level hes on, and what betsizing/timing tells he is giving out along with the history of all other big pots ive played with this player.

so essentially i think the best players are incredibly good at putting opponents on significantly wider/narrower ranges than beginner/novice players, and this overarching skill of handreading is significantly more important than the logical technical skills that all good players have long since internalized.
12-11-2007, 12:31 AM
gabe

"i like the strassa post but think the zjustin post was basically poorly thought out and not necessarily correct as theres a gigantic amount of grey area"

i agree. reading hand analysis from him makes me think zeejustin fits into this thing too:

"much of the analysis on this forum from well known long-time winners is often wrong or incomplete, yet they manage to win because they play reasonably tight, avoid making highly exploitable errors, and are fortunate enough to choose frequencies that 'work' into an overall strategy(hi grimstarr!)."
12-11-2007, 03:10 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by sauce123

Quote:

Originally Posted by gabe

rational

btw i like the strassa post but think the zjustin post was basically poorly thought out and not necessarily correct as theres a gigantic amount of grey area and i think he likely underestimates how rational Ozzy or other of his illogical players actually think even though they may only be estimating.

for instance i rarely look at potsize anymore, or replay the hand in my head when making a critical decision: as the statement "im getting X to 1" is not nearly as important as how often i think hes bluffing, how thin i think hes value betting, what level hes on, and what betsizing/timing tells he is giving out along with the history of all other big pots ive played with this player.

so essentially i think the best players are incredibly good at putting opponents on significantly wider/narrower ranges than beginner/novice players, and this overarching skill of handreading is significantly more important than the logical technical skills that all good players have long since internalized.

Dude this is your longest post in awhile and is fucking awesome.