Preflop cap - TPTK

Printable View

11-13-2007, 12:01 AM
arborman

Preflop cap - TPTK

Villain (UTG+1) is new to me (<25 hands).

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 raises, UTG+2 calls, Hero 3-bets, 3 folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG+1 caps, UTG+2 calls, Hero calls, Button calls.

Flop: (17.50 SB) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (4 players)
UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (10.25 BB) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 checks, [color=#CC3333]Hero???

So I've hit my top pair, but...
11-13-2007, 12:14 AM
KoRnholio

Easy bet. All that beats you is AA/A9/99. UTG+1 very likely has TT-KK here and may well call down 2 bets to show it down.
11-13-2007, 10:20 AM
BennyLaRue

I'd have raised the flop to clarify his holding and push out the Button if he was drawing.

As played, I'm betting the turn. If c/r'ed, I puke in a cup and, depending on how much caffeine was running through me, call it down for information only.
11-13-2007, 11:02 AM
littleogre

Quote:

Originally Posted by KoRnholio

Easy bet. All that beats you is AA/A9/99. UTG+1 very likely has TT-KK here and may well call down 2 bets to show it down.

Doesn't a 2 beat us?
11-13-2007, 01:13 PM
Hermann the Lombard

Yes, a 2 beats us but is inconsistent with pre-flop action even if villain has two of them. :shock: Regarding a flop raise I'll go along with trying to force out Button. I'm not so sure about "clarify his holding" as I've been chewed on recently at 2+2 on the subject of raising for information...the current consensus there being that you can't rely on the information.
11-13-2007, 01:19 PM
littleogre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

Yes, a 2 beats us but is inconsistent with pre-flop action even if villain has two of them. :shock: Regarding a flop raise I'll go along with trying to force out Button. I'm not so sure about "clarify his holding" as I've been chewed on recently at 2+2 on the subject of raising for information...the current consensus there being that you can't rely on the information.

Guess you ain't seen the things i have seen. It is not unusual for me to see a player cap pf then the board pairs 4s on the flop only to see the pf capper show up with j/4 off
11-13-2007, 01:22 PM
KoRnholio

Quote:

Originally Posted by littleogre

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

Yes, a 2 beats us but is inconsistent with pre-flop action even if villain has two of them. :shock: Regarding a flop raise I'll go along with trying to force out Button. I'm not so sure about "clarify his holding" as I've been chewed on recently at 2+2 on the subject of raising for information...the current consensus there being that you can't rely on the information.

Guess you ain't seen the things i have seen. It is not unusual for me to see a player cap pf then the board pairs 4s on the flop only to see the pf capper show up with j/4 off

I guess that's why including stakes in the OP helps sometimes ;)

Really though, I can't see someone capping with a deuce in their hand though unless he is a total maniac (which would be pretty evident after even 20 hands).
11-13-2007, 02:40 PM
arborman

So I bet turn, CO called and UTG+1 checkraised. Then what?
11-13-2007, 03:39 PM
KoRnholio

Call down. Very likely that he has AQ/AK here.
11-13-2007, 04:11 PM
BennyLaRue

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hermann the Lombard

I've been chewed on recently at 2+2 on the subject of raising for information...the current consensus there being that you can't rely on the information.

It depends on the stakes, I suppose. But if you can rely on the information even a small majority of the time, and understand how opps play deviates from expectation the rest of the time, you're better off.
11-13-2007, 06:17 PM
NWNewell

Just call if he continues to bet.

Bet if he checks to you.

Raise/fold the river.

No need to define your hand. He has an under pair, a worse Ace, AK, or AA. A flop raise has no value. You get more value from letting a worse pair/ace continue to donk. A flop raise is normally only going to get you 3-bet by AA or chase out a worse hand. If he gives up and checks, bet and charge him for the showdown. And you have enough value to raise the river, almost no one has the balls to 3-bet your on the river with a worse hand (AK is usually going to be too afraid you ran him down to 3-bet a river raise).
11-13-2007, 06:25 PM
euphoricism

He's either bluffing or he's got you beat. Raising encourages him to fold when youre ahead, and encourages him to reraise when he's head. Either way, you lose.
11-14-2007, 11:36 AM
Hermann the Lombard

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

He's either bluffing or he's got you beat. Raising encourages him to fold when youre ahead, and encourages him to reraise when he's head. Either way, you lose.

Do you mean on the flop or the turn (or the river)? If it's the flop I think we gain either if he puts more money in the pot (since we're probably ahead) or if he folds (making us more likely to win the pot). I forget whether I read that in SSHE or in ITH, it's not original. It's certainly worth it to make a draw more expensive.
11-14-2007, 05:17 PM
DrivingDog

Quote:

Originally Posted by euphoricism

He's either bluffing or he's got you beat. Raising encourages him to fold when youre ahead, and encourages him to reraise when he's head. Either way, you lose.

Yup, i just puke-call-down here and hope he's got AK, AQ or a total bluff.