preflop fold AK...right move or played like a puss?

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10-29-2007, 04:05 AM
b-rabbit

preflop fold AK...right move or played like a puss?

villain has been playing really tight. folds a lot. and he insta-pushed my 3bet. i felt confident he was holding AA or KK. but i might just be playing it safe. i don't know. my raise was weak as shit.

PokerStars Game #12912671514: Hold'em No Limit ($0.10/$0.25) - 2007/10/29 - 02:56:12 (ET)
Table 'Eurypylos II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: RRRAcesGood? ($14.15 in chips)
Seat 2: Gorvad ($12.85 in chips)
Seat 3: ToneLoc79 ($28.65 in chips)
Seat 4: dakota9ball ($34.60 in chips)
Seat 5: Danpil ($26.95 in chips)
Seat 6: br614 ($64.85 in chips)
Danpil: posts small blind $0.10
br614: posts big blind $0.25
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to br614 [Ac Kd]
RRRAcesGood?: folds
Gorvad: raises $0.75 to $1
ToneLoc79: folds
dakota9ball: folds
Danpil: folds
br614: raises $0.75 to $1.75
Gorvad: raises $11.10 to $12.85 and is all-in
br614: folds
Gorvad collected $3.60 from pot
10-29-2007, 04:57 AM
gabe

"my raise was weak as shit"

yea was it a misclick or something
10-29-2007, 05:04 AM
b-rabbit

no. kinda.
would you call his push?
10-29-2007, 06:39 AM
Kits

I always wondered who those players were that make those weak ass raises. Now I know who but I still don't know why?

If he's really tight and insta pushes then I fold. If you think your read is right then what's the question?
10-29-2007, 07:24 AM
bode

snap call. its 10nl and hes a short stack.
10-29-2007, 07:32 AM
WillburForce

25nl right?

As he's a short stack i'd call. You'll see A-10, A-J, A-Q and worse here alot.

and obviously re-raise to more like $3+
10-29-2007, 12:19 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Raise at least 3x and we don't have this problem.

Oh and short stack seriously, get it in.
10-29-2007, 12:39 PM
will641

heres my take on it. most of the time I am all in pre with AK, most of the time I am up against 10's-AA and AK. Occasionally i run into AQ, AJ or just, but not nearly as often, so isn't it worth it to never put it in pre with AK unless you are up against retard?
10-29-2007, 01:04 PM
BigPapi

wow where did you get the idea to raise like this? but anyway calllllllll.
10-29-2007, 01:29 PM
Halv

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

heres my take on it. most of the time I am all in pre with AK, most of the time I am up against 10's-AA and AK. Occasionally i run into AQ, AJ or just, but not nearly as often, so isn't it worth it to never put it in pre with AK unless you are up against retard?

We need 42.94% equity to break even.

Results from http:\\www.HoldEmRanger.com
1,171,215,936 evaluations, 684 hole card combos

Pre-flop

Wins Ties Equity
30.56% 12.38% 42.94% ( AKo )
44.68% 12.38% 57.06% ( TT+,AK,AJ-AQ(11.6) )

So if he plays his AQ and AJ hands like this 11.6% of the time he has them the call is break even.

Edit: his range is really much wider than that, so if I misclick-minraised this would be a fistpump and a call.
10-29-2007, 01:31 PM
WillburForce

Quote:

Originally Posted by will641

heres my take on it. most of the time I am all in pre with AK, most of the time I am up against 10's-AA and AK. Occasionally i run into AQ, AJ or just, but not nearly as often, so isn't it worth it to never put it in pre with AK unless you are up against retard?

at 25nl, with a short stack, this could be anything. you see people push with K-10(not even suited), QK, Ax. and if you do come up against 10-10, J-J etc you've still got outs.

main problem here was the weak ass raise. We're really not sure where we are, but i'd get it in there like a shot.
10-29-2007, 02:38 PM
Deanglow

Insta-call. If you folded because of bankroll issues move down.
10-29-2007, 02:41 PM
b-rabbit

ok so general consensus is that i played the hand like a donkey vagina. i think the way he acted hes pushing over my 3bet regardless if i minraise or make it 4 bucks to go. i'm not defending my weak raise. if i make it like 4 bucks and he pushes for 6 more its an easier to call to make than as played. but the overall question is, as played, does my fold make sense? or with AK in my hand do i not worry about the likely AA or KK insta-shove and make the call. i wish i called now just to make the thread a little more interesting.
10-29-2007, 02:45 PM
bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalvSame

Wins Ties Equity
30.56% 12.38% 42.94% ( AKo )
44.68% 12.38% 57.06% ( TT+,AK,AJ-AQ(11.6) )

So if he plays his AQ and AJ hands like this 11.6% of the time he has them the call is break even.

Edit: his range is really much wider than that, so if I misclick-minraised this would be a fistpump and a call.

holy crap discounted ranges!!!!
10-29-2007, 05:05 PM
Chopper

heres where chopper gets flamed for being a nit.

the fold doesnt bother me at all, given your read. thats a large RR to go AI against w/ crap. i dont want to go into a flop pinning my hopes on "i've got outs." at small stakes, that is sillyness, imo.

if i cant do the pushing, i dont any part of a big RR vs someone playing tight. now, if i can push, then, i may take him on.

AK is a piece of shit 2/3 of the time pf. and if i think i may be dominated, its worse.
10-29-2007, 05:57 PM
Robb

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

heres where chopper gets flamed for being a nit.

The all-in show downs I've seen at NL10 are still mainly AA, KK and some QQ along with occasional AK. I don't see enough of what y'all have seen (AQ, AJ or KT) to think his range is wide enough. I like the fold here, given the rr amount. I mean, chopper should be flamed, but not for this post. :twisted:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

If i cant do the pushing, i dont want any part of a big RR vs someone playing tight. now, if i can push, then, i may take him on.

I'm finding my big calls are wrong - a LOT. NL10 is loose, but most of the fish haven't completely lost their minds. I tend to believe all-ins are VERY strong hands until I have evidence to the contrary. I prefer to let someone else call the "bluff" and try to get a real read before I call one. But I'm pushing more and more, and firing big reraises more and more. They fold to the aggressor a lot more than they should.
10-29-2007, 07:04 PM
Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

AK is a piece of shit 2/3 of the time pf

explain? Would you make this call with QQ?
10-29-2007, 07:17 PM
silu73

AKo against short stack at $25nl. Call.

Also your pre-flop raise is way too small. I would raise to $4 and call a push.
10-29-2007, 08:10 PM
Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pelion

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chopper

AK is a piece of shit 2/3 of the time pf

explain? Would you make this call with QQ?

yes, i suppose i would. there is a chance i am up against another AK. and at least my QQ is favored there. i understand there is a 2% better edge against a range of KK+,AK with an AK of my own.

but, i tend to overplay AK, at these stakes, and have had better results w/ QQ. i just dont like going into the flop most likely needing to hit a pair to "have any chance."
10-29-2007, 09:39 PM
b-rabbit

so who should i listen to
10-29-2007, 11:19 PM
Chopper

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-rabbit

so who should i listen to

my signature, and pelion's comment, would suggest...not me. lol.
10-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Listen to me, call the shove.

Also 3-bet a lot bigger pre.
10-29-2007, 11:23 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

Quote:

Originally Posted by HalvSame

Wins Ties Equity
30.56% 12.38% 42.94% ( AKo )
44.68% 12.38% 57.06% ( TT+,AK,AJ-AQ(11.6) )

So if he plays his AQ and AJ hands like this 11.6% of the time he has them the call is break even.

Edit: his range is really much wider than that, so if I misclick-minraised this would be a fistpump and a call.

holy crap discounted ranges!!!!

when did this happen?
10-29-2007, 11:31 PM
gabe

Quote:

Originally Posted by b-rabbit

so who should i listen to

me
10-29-2007, 11:49 PM
Halv

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

holy crap discounted ranges!!!!

when did this happen?[/quote]Maybe a month or two ago. It's made by the same guy that made the "Free HUD". It hasn't got a "card picker" like pokerstove has, but entering ranges with the keyboard is much easier.

Enough off-topic, if you want to discuss it make a thread in your favorite sub forum Tools of poker :).