$100nl JJ on undercard flop

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP3 ($88.45)
CO ($58.90)
Button ($154.20)
SB ($197.90)
Hero ($174.45)
UTG ($88.70)
UTG+1 ($117.30)
MP1 ($35.50)
MP2 ($99.35)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
3 folds, MP2 raises to $4, 4 folds, Hero raises to $12, MP2 calls $8.

Flop: ($24.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $20, MP2 calls $20.

Turn: ($64.50) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $46, MP2 raises to $67.35, Hero calls $21.35.

River: ($199.20) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $199.20

I don't like stacking off here but I'm not sure how else to play it. :roll:

any reads on villain?? whats his pfr %? for what reason did you 3-bet him? loose aggressive guy or super tight??
sometimes i just called, kept the pot relatively small oop and picked up some Cb from my opponents. A general rule of thumb is it's very difficult to play TPTK or overpair hand 100BB deep OOP, especially when your top pair is not that strong.
without any reads, i'd take this felting line till showdown but not happy at all.

He played his AA-QQ well.

What range of hands raises PF from MP, calls a big blind rr, then calls a >75%PSB on a low flop... OOP, i think we slow down and probably check/fold the turn to >1/2PSB.

QQ ftw IMO. Rarely might he have TT, but QQ is soooo likely here.
I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to c/r a lot of flops. thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

QQ ftw IMO. Rarely might he have TT, but QQ is soooo likely here.
I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to c/r a lot of flops. thoughts?

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I guess it would depend on villains stats.

Tera is a nice avatar also.

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to c/r a lot of flops. thoughts?

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same

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to lead a lot of flops. thoughts?

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to lead a lot of flops. thoughts?

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i dunno seems like c/r makes more vs. missed overs (which is prob the most likely scenario) than leading does.

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Originally Posted by martindcx1e

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to lead a lot of flops. thoughts?

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i dunno seems like c/r makes more vs. missed overs (which is prob the most likely scenario) than leading does.

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it also turns JJ into a bluff.

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by martindcx1e

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to lead a lot of flops. thoughts?

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i dunno seems like c/r makes more vs. missed overs (which is prob the most likely scenario) than leading does.

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it also turns JJ into a bluff.

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Would you c/f or b/f or what? the turn after your flop lead was called?

generally when i flop an overpair with JJ after calling pre and lead flop, i go for 2-3 streets of value with it. If they raise me on the flop i call and reevaluate.

BTW working some leading into your game with medium strength hands is GREAT for metagame.

Why not check the turn? It's hard to get more value out of weaker hands. So you'll loose less against better hands and entice bluffs against weaker ones.

Checking the turn is the only way to avoid stacking off here.

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by martindcx1e

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Originally Posted by Renton

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

I actually dont like a 3bet preflop, but prefer to lead a lot of flops. thoughts?

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i dunno seems like c/r makes more vs. missed overs (which is prob the most likely scenario) than leading does.

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it also turns JJ into a bluff.

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if we balance it from the bb im fine with either.

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Originally Posted by Renton

it also turns JJ into a bluff.

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who cares if it makes more $? also, what is calling your 2-3 streets of value? TT? your line guarantees your stacking if AA-QQ just calls your flop lead.

JJ flopped overpair out of position is one of those hands where c/r would be an overplay, c/c would be an underplay, so therefore we split the difference and lead.

re: QQ-AA, he lets us know if he has this before we commit too many chips.

re: c/r making more money. Im skeptical. Leading protects your hand better, people often will take a turn with AK if you lead. Also you are perhaps forgetting that on XXX <J flops people don't generally continuation bet as often, so it isn't as if when leading we are killing the EV of letting him bet.

re: what calls? Often any pair will call you down all the way, or AK or something. You will usually get 1.5 to 2 streets of value and will often get 3 from suspicious and bad players.

wtf i had forgotten that we were talking about if hero just called preflop. lol nvm about the guaranteed stacking thing.

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Originally Posted by Renton

generally when i flop an overpair with JJ after calling pre and lead flop, i go for 2-3 streets of value with it. If they raise me on the flop i call and reevaluate.

BTW working some leading into your game with medium strength hands is GREAT for metagame.

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not happy with this line. Ive seen it lots a t2/4nl 6max and i still hate it especially when you are oop.