Bet sizing when deep stacked

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10-10-2007, 01:51 AM
grnydrowave2

Bet sizing when deep stacked

I'm playing at AP now where the NL tables buy in for 200bbs. I don't think I'm taking full advantage of it.

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

CO ($20.95)
Button ($3.65)
Hero ($19.90)
BB ($2.95)
UTG ($20)
MP1 ($12.85)
MP2 ($7.95)

Preflop: Hero is SB with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kh.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jd.gif.
1 fold, MP1 calls $0.10, 1 fold, CO calls $0.10, Button raises to $0.3, Hero calls $0.25, BB calls $0.20, MP1 calls $0.20, CO calls $0.20.

Flop: ($1.50) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/js.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/kd.gif (5 players)
Hero checks, BB bets $0.5, MP1 folds, CO raises to $1, Button folds, Hero calls $1, BB folds.

Turn: ($4) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8d.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $2.1, CO calls $2.10.

River: ($8.20) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/jh.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $5.8, CO calls $5.80.

Final Pot: $19.80

Absolute Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $0.10 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)

MP2 ($4.50)
Hero ($20.30)
Button ($7.60)
SB ($4.75)
BB ($26.35)
UTG ($9.70)
MP1 ($11.55)

Preflop: Hero is CO with http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7h.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7c.gif.
2 folds, Hero calls $0.10, Button calls $0.10, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($0.40) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/8d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/7d.gif, http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3h.gif (5 players)
SB checks, BB bets $0.3, Hero raises to $0.9, Button folds, SB folds, BB calls $0.60.

Turn: ($2.20) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/3s.gif (3 players)
BB bets $1.1, Hero raises to $3.1, BB calls $2.

River: ($8.40) http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/.../smiles/ac.gif (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $6, BB calls $6.

Final Pot: $20.40

I think hand 1 is pretty bad. How is hand 2? Is there any value in pushing the river?
10-10-2007, 03:27 AM
Hawk

OK, so here goes my first feedback on a hand.

Hand 1.
I agree that was bad. I might check the flop also, but after the other raises, I'd reraise big, and continue to bet/raise big the rest of the way through. But you know that it seems.

Hand 2.
Seems to be an issue of "how big of a bet will he call?", so the only extra value would have been if you think he'd have called an AI.
10-10-2007, 11:25 AM
grnydrowave2

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkfan79

OK, so here goes my first feedback on a hand.

Hand 1.
I agree that was bad. I might check the flop also, but after the other raises, I'd reraise big, and continue to bet/raise big the rest of the way through. But you know that it seems.

Agreed. The goal, I think, in both of these hands is to get all the money in. If I had reraised the flop to say, $4, then lead out for $8 or so on the turn, I could reasonably push all-in on the river. However...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawkfan79

Hand 2.
Seems to be an issue of "how big of a bet will he call?", so the only extra value would have been if you think he'd have called an AI.

Yes, that's part of it. Again, I think I'm supposed to get all the money in. However, I'm afraid that an AI overbet will only get called by a hand that beats me. Those two thoughts are contradictory, so maybe that's the wrong way of going about it? If had managed to build the pot to about $14 with $13 behind, I would be happy to push. Why then, am I opposed to pushing into a $8 pot with $16?

I guess this is really two questions. First, am I correct in thinking that pushing the river is a horrible play? If yes, then is this as big as I can manage to build the pot? I think I should have potted the river at least. Perhaps a slight overbet is okay?

Edit: Allow me to rephrase the second question. How can I extract maximum value from this hand? Is there any line I can take to get all the money in?
10-10-2007, 01:06 PM
Jimmy Mac

I'd dump hand 1 pre. You're in the worst absolute & relative position. Reverse implied odds - yuk! I usually lead the flop here rather than check raise too. I don't hate it, but 4 way you cant bank on getting a bet out of someone - I'd rather just try and build the pot myself and hope someone raises me.

Hand 2 is OK, although I raise pre every time. How often do you think he calls a river push? If he calls half as often as he calls $6 then pushing is much better.
10-10-2007, 01:06 PM
kmind

Hand 1: Pre: fold. As played: if I am checking the flop, then I am reraising. Turn I'd bet more like 3/4. I like your river bet.

Hand 2: Pre: raise. As played: I am reraising both flop and turn more. None of this "I have to RR 3x villain's bet". River I'd bet like 3/4 or so as well.
10-10-2007, 01:15 PM
kmind

Quote:

Originally Posted by grnydrowave2

I guess this is really two questions. First, am I correct in thinking that pushing the river is a horrible play? If yes, then is this as big as I can manage to build the pot? I think I should have potted the river at least. Perhaps a slight overbet is okay?

Edit: Allow me to rephrase the second question. How can I extract maximum value from this hand? Is there any line I can take to get all the money in?

Yeah this is a bad overbet AI push. As far as getting maximum, I think you know what you have to do. Bet and raise more money. It may take some experience but you need to try to figure out the maximum amount of money villain will call (as opposed to him folding). I know that sounds obvious, but seriously try to think of it each hand. Put him on a range, and try to work your bet sizing around what you put him on. If you start building the pot early on, bets on later streets will be bigger.