Char's hand of the night thread

I don't know if I'll follow thru on this or not, but it could be fun...

Here's a fun one from last night's 100k on Stars - as a prelude, yellowsub is a known good player - my stats on him is that his vpip and preflop raise are almost identical. I.e. he is a preflop player. I actually thought for a second preflop about whether to simply push or make my 2.5x raise. In the end I decided against him that a 2.5x raise would look stronger, but I also knew that if he pushed over the top I had to call...

POKERSTARS GAME #12520430275: TOURNAMENT #63182601, $150+$12 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL IX (200/400) - 2007/10/08 - 23:13:45 (ET)
Table '63182601 50' 9-max Seat #5 is the button
Seat 1: yoshdog22 (7062 in chips)
Seat 2: Kunkles_JR (7495 in chips)
Seat 3: Hibbs08 (15069 in chips)
Seat 4: narc21 (3546 in chips)
Seat 5: Dg0016 (5050 in chips)
Seat 6: yellowsub86 (9528 in chips)
Seat 7: chardrian (6960 in chips)
Seat 8: jotan83 (7760 in chips)
Seat 9: tommy19885 (14980 in chips)
yoshdog22: posts the ante 20
Kunkles_JR: posts the ante 20
Hibbs08: posts the ante 20
narc21: posts the ante 20
Dg0016: posts the ante 20
yellowsub86: posts the ante 20
chardrian: posts the ante 20
jotan83: posts the ante 20
tommy19885: posts the ante 20
yellowsub86: posts small blind 200
chardrian: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [9h 8d]
jotan83: folds
tommy19885: folds
yoshdog22: folds
Kunkles_JR: folds
Hibbs08: folds
narc21: folds
Dg0016: folds
yellowsub86: raises 600 to 1000
chardrian: raises 1500 to 2500
yellowsub86: raises 7008 to 9508 and is all-in
chardrian: calls 4440 and is all-in
*** FLOP *** [2s 9s 5d]
*** TURN *** [2s 9s 5d] [8s]
*** RIVER *** [2s 9s 5d 8s] [Ks]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
yellowsub86: shows [6s 7c] (a flush, King high)
chardrian: shows [9h 8d] (two pair, Nines and Eights)
yellowsub86 collected 14060 from pot
yellowsub86 said, "lol?"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 14060 | Rake 0
Board [2s 9s 5d 8s Ks]
Seat 1: yoshdog22 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: Kunkles_JR folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: Hibbs08 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: narc21 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: Dg0016 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: yellowsub86 (small blind) showed [6s 7c] and won (14060) with a flush, King high
Seat 7: chardrian (big blind) showed [9h 8d] and lost with two pair, Nines and Eights
Seat 8: jotan83 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: tommy19885 folded before Flop (didn't bet)

it seems like you give up a lot of FE against the low end or his range just to gain a little against the middle. Also, it sucks if he smooth calls.

I like a push better preflop. I would rather put him to the decision to call than you calling his shove over your reraise even though you have the odds to call. With his style, it is highly probable that you are against the type of hand that he turned over than something that dominates you. In other words, he can't call your shove and you take down the pot preflop. Also sending a message - don't fuck with me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drmcboy

it seems like you give up a lot of FE against the low end or his range just to gain a little against the middle. Also, it sucks if he smooth calls.

---

I don't understand what you mean regarding the first sentence. Why would the low end of his range be more prone to get it in here instead of the middle of his range??

Once I decide to reraise preflop, I have to accept that all of my chips have to go to the middle. The real decision in this hand was what was the best way to get him to fold. I think I ended up leveling myself. I raised 2.5x because I wanted him to think my hand was super strong. He instead thought I was trying to be tricky and left msyelf enough to fold (I would have had about 10x the BB) so he pushed. In the end we both totally misread what each other would do - the only read we both probably had that was correct was each other's ranges (we both put each other on a wide wide range).

lol donkaments?

He wasn't going to call a push with 67. He (might/did) re raise when you raised less. If you are calling either way, he has:

A big hand, that he will call a push or shove over (no change EV)

A medium hand, that he might call a push with but will fold to the smaller re raise (here is the minor gain in EV against the middle of his range)

A bad hand, which he always folds to a shove, but may re pop you with. He clearly even has better 9s in his range which we really want him to fold (major loss in EV against the end of his range)

It just seems like for your play to make sense, he has to have the meduim part of the range a whole lot more than the other two.

Don't try to represent a big hand when it's not very believable that you could have one. You should be re-raising with a very wide range here, but even with your legitimate re-stealing hands like AT, you'd rather take the pot down than get called. Only like 5% of the time will you have a hand that's so strong that you actually want action. Therefore I'd say that your small raise is a bluff a significant majority of the time. Taking a line that's usually a bluff against a good player isn't a good thing when you're actually bluffing, IMO.

This is why I'm a huge advocate of just pushing your entire range in this spot. I think getting involved in dumb mind games against players who are better than you is a crap-shoot at best.

edit: I just realized that sounds kind of harsh. I didn't mean dumb as an insult, I mean that I think this type of situation isn't that interesting to think about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sprayed

With his style, it is highly probable that you are against the type of hand that he turned over than something that dominates you. In other words, he can't call your shove and you take down the pot preflop. Also sending a message - don't fuck with me.

---

I disagree with this as well. Yellowsub is going to get all-in here with a very wide range of hands. If he has A7 or KJ he's calling a push and rightly so.

POKERSTARS GAME #12541473256: TOURNAMENT #63176908, $70+$7 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VII (150/300) - 2007/10/10 - 01:42:24 (ET)
Table '63176908 32' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: albierie (5100 in chips)
Seat 2: BodogMaven (13503 in chips)
Seat 3: kilroy_11 (3350 in chips)
Seat 4: chardrian (15343 in chips)
Seat 5: schmiad (11405 in chips)
Seat 6: umeus01 (19633 in chips)
albierie: posts the ante 25
BodogMaven: posts the ante 25
kilroy_11: posts the ante 25
chardrian: posts the ante 25
schmiad: posts the ante 25
umeus01: posts the ante 25
schmiad: posts small blind 150
umeus01: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [2c 2h]
umeus01 said, "trappa"
albierie: folds
BodogMaven: folds
umeus01 said, "..."
kilroy_11: folds
chardrian: raises 600 to 900
schmiad: folds
umeus01: calls 600
*** FLOP *** [7c Tc 5c]
umeus01: checks
chardrian: bets 1300
umeus01: calls 1300
*** TURN *** [7c Tc 5c] [7h]
umeus01: checks
chardrian: bets 3118
umeus01: calls 3118
*** RIVER *** [7c Tc 5c 7h] [9s]
umeus01: bets 3600
chardrian: raises 6400 to 10000 and is all-in
umeus01: folds
chardrian collected 18136 from pot
umeus01 said, "99?"
chardrian: doesn't show hand
umeus01 said, "nh"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 18136 | Rake 0
Board [7c Tc 5c 7h 9s]
Seat 1: albierie folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BodogMaven folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: kilroy_11 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: chardrian (button) collected (18136)
Seat 5: schmiad (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: umeus01 (big blind) folded on the River

reads? If he can fold a T good, if not bad

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcatdog

Don't try to represent a big hand when it's not very believable that you could have one. You should be re-raising with a very wide range here, but even with your legitimate re-stealing hands like AT, you'd rather take the pot down than get called. Only like 5% of the time will you have a hand that's so strong that you actually want action. Therefore I'd say that your small raise is a bluff a significant majority of the time. Taking a line that's usually a bluff against a good player isn't a good thing when you're actually bluffing, IMO.

This is why I'm a huge advocate of just pushing your entire range in this spot. I think getting involved in dumb mind games against players who are better than you is a crap-shoot at best.

edit: I just realized that sounds kind of harsh. I didn't mean dumb as an insult, I mean that I think this type of situation isn't that interesting to think about.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sprayed

With his style, it is highly probable that you are against the type of hand that he turned over than something that dominates you. In other words, he can't call your shove and you take down the pot preflop. Also sending a message - don't fuck with me.

---

I disagree with this as well. Yellowsub is going to get all-in here with a very wide range of hands. If he has A7 or KJ he's calling a push and rightly so.

---

Then if that's the case then why would you advocate a shove? The whole point is to push in order to get him to fold.

I am agreeing with you that chard should have put all his chips in instead of reraising and over thinking the hand. yellowsub would have be getting < 2-1 to call chard's shove unless he has very strong hand.

My point was that he usually doesn't have that strong of a hand in this situation due to his playing style. If he calls with A7 or KJ you are not that dominated. Chard's 98h plays really well against this kind of hand. Plus , with 17bbs I don't believe that chard can mess around with a reraise. This is prime shove restealing territory. Especially against someone that will stick his stack back in your face.

? fold

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sprayed

Then if that's the case then why would you advocate a shove? The whole point is to push in order to get him to fold.

---

I don't have a strong opinion on folding vs. shoving because it's probably really close to neutral EV. They're both better than a small raise. If shoving is good it's probably only because it might make him more likely to leave your blinds alone in the future and it might bust the best player at the table.

Quote:

---

My point was that he usually doesn't have that strong of a hand in this situation due to his playing style. If he calls with A7 or KJ you are not that dominated. Chard's 98h plays really well against this kind of hand.

---

And my point is he knows you know that and you're vastly over-estimating the chances that he'll fold. My guess is he'll call about half the time and you're about 35% vs. his calling range, which isn't terrible but it's not "really good" either. With those numbers a shove is almost exactly neutral EV.

On the 22 hand it sure looks like he bet a small enough amount that he could fold to a raise. If he's a bad nit who loves to see monsters under the bed (which is very likely based on his table chat) this is probably a nice play. If he's any good then this is questionable for the same reason as the other hand; the range of hands you're representing is too narrow.

If shoving 98o here is +ev it implies that his raise/call ranges are not balanced. There's no reason to assume that because Yellow is a very good player..

There really wasn't anything too exciting from tonight, this was the closest thing to an unusual hand:

FullTiltPoker Game #3830042579: $30,000 Guarantee (28465011), Table 32 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:50:02 ET - 2007/10/12
Seat 1: CapTinBisKuiT (39,249)
Seat 2: bg007 (45,968)
Seat 3: chardrian (124,085)
Seat 4: pistonzz (23,015)
Seat 5: gankedpopo (14,426)
Seat 6: tvanyo (56,537)
CapTinBisKuiT antes 150
bg007 antes 150
chardrian antes 150
pistonzz antes 150
gankedpopo antes 150
tvanyo antes 150
CapTinBisKuiT posts the small blind of 600
bg007 posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #6
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Jh Qh]
chardrian raises to 3,600
pistonzz calls 3,600
gankedpopo folds
tvanyo calls 3,600
CapTinBisKuiT folds
bg007 has 15 seconds left to act
bg007 folds
*** FLOP *** [3h 8d 3d]
chardrian checks
pistonzz bets 1,200
tvanyo calls 1,200
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 6,400
pistonzz folds
tvanyo calls 5,200
*** TURN *** [3h 8d 3d] [Kd]
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian bets 13,200
tvanyo has 15 seconds left to act
tvanyo folds
Uncalled bet of 13,200 returned to chardrian
chardrian mucks
chardrian wins the pot (27,500)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 27,500 | Rake 0
Board: [3h 8d 3d Kd]
Seat 1: CapTinBisKuiT (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 2: bg007 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: chardrian collected (27,500), mucked
Seat 4: pistonzz folded on the Flop
Seat 5: gankedpopo folded before the Flop
Seat 6: tvanyo (button) folded on the Turn

POKERSTARS GAME #12614193487: TOURNAMENT #63177002, $10+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VIII (200/400) - 2007/10/13 - 23:59:12 (ET)
Table '63177002 49' 9-max Seat #8 is the button
Seat 1: habashy (22235 in chips)
Seat 2: JHRose (4520 in chips)
Seat 4: Fat Stack213 (9660 in chips)
Seat 5: rivertapped (16535 in chips)
Seat 6: (ANMP) (18600 in chips)
Seat 7: -VL- (9185 in chips)
Seat 8: bobsky13 (15450 in chips)
Seat 9: chardrian (13585 in chips)
habashy: posts the ante 25
JHRose: posts the ante 25
Fat Stack213: posts the ante 25
rivertapped: posts the ante 25
(ANMP): posts the ante 25
-VL-: posts the ante 25
bobsky13: posts the ante 25
chardrian: posts the ante 25
chardrian: posts small blind 200
habashy: posts big blind 400
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Qd 9h]
smerkone is connected
JHRose: folds
Fat Stack213: folds
rivertapped: folds
(ANMP): folds
-VL-: calls 400
bobsky13: folds
chardrian: calls 200
habashy: checks
*** FLOP *** [8s 9d 6s]
chardrian: checks
habashy: checks
-VL-: bets 800
chardrian: raises 1800 to 2600
habashy: raises 9800 to 12400
-VL-: folds
chardrian: folds
habashy collected 7400 from pot
habashy: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 7400 | Rake 0
Board [8s 9d 6s]
Seat 1: habashy (big blind) collected (7400)
Seat 2: JHRose folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: Fat Stack213 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: rivertapped folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: (ANMP) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: -VL- folded on the Flop
Seat 8: bobsky13 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: chardrian (small blind) folded on the Flop

This was really close for me - I know for some it's an instafold, but I think this is a race a lot of the time.

This was my "too cute syndrome" play that ended up working out for me in madness:

POKERSTARS GAME #12675875303: TOURNAMENT #63957619 $10+$1 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL XXIII (10000/20000) - 2007/10/17 - 04:18:46 (ET)
Table '63957619 20' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 2: 1superkinged (1288148 in chips)
Seat 3: jamesy (754174 in chips)
Seat 4: LiTTle2000 (899563 in chips)
Seat 6: chardrian (1062388 in chips)
Seat 7: ChampVol (208977 in chips)
Seat 9: bparis (994954 in chips)
1superkinged: posts the ante 2000
jamesy: posts the ante 2000
LiTTle2000: posts the ante 2000
chardrian : posts the ante 2000
ChampVol: posts the ante 2000
bparis: posts the ante 2000
LiTTle2000: posts small blind 10000
chardrian : posts big blind 20000

Holecards:
Dealt to chardrian [5d] [Tc]
FOLD ChampVol
FOLD bparis
FOLD 1superkinged
FOLD jamesy
CALL LiTTle2000, 10000
RAISE chardrian , 50000 to 70000
CALL LiTTle2000, 50000

Flop:
[4c] [8d] [8h]
CHECK LiTTle2000:
BET chardrian , 90000
RAISE LiTTle2000, 90000 to 180000
RAISE chardrian , 90000 to 270000
CALL LiTTle2000, 90000

Turn:
[7d]
CHECK LiTTle2000:
BET chardrian , 200000
CALL LiTTle2000, 200000

River:
[7c]
CHECK LiTTle2000:
CHECK chardrian :

Showdown:
LiTTle2000: shows [6s] [4h] (two pair Eights and Sevens)
chardrian : shows [5d] [Tc] (two pair Eights and Sevens - Ten kicker)
chardrian collected 1092000 from pot
>>>LiTTle2000 said, "u are so lucky"

SUMMARY:
Total pot 1092000 | Rake 0

Board:
[ ]
Seat 2: 1superkinged folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: jamesy (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: LiTTle2000 (small blind) showed [ ] and lost with two pair Eights and Sevens
Seat 6: chardrian (big blind) showed [ ] and won (1092000) with two pair Eights and Sevens
Seat 7: ChampVol folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: bparis folded before Flop (didn't bet)

valuetown!

well I am playing again.

I didn't have any real interesting hands that I was in last night but the following hand came up, which I thought was interesting:

MagicJD has 99. I don't hate his checks on both the flop and turn (although I think I usually weak lead the turn). But I woulda have bet much differently than he did on the river. How much do you bet and why?

POKERSTARS GAME #15726196797: TOURNAMENT #79267185, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL X (400/800) - 2008/03/03 - 23:59:21 (ET)
Table '79267185 29' 9-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: stevecfred (31543 in chips)
Seat 2: 333billy333 (19871 in chips)
Seat 3: Mackerel1 (7527 in chips)
Seat 4: coralcaves (4370 in chips)
Seat 6: criina (15418 in chips)
Seat 7: lobo92662 (9151 in chips)
Seat 8: chardrian (10575 in chips)
Seat 9: Magic_JD (11237 in chips)
stevecfred: posts the ante 75
333billy333: posts the ante 75
Mackerel1: posts the ante 75
coralcaves: posts the ante 75
criina: posts the ante 75
lobo92662: posts the ante 75
chardrian: posts the ante 75
Magic_JD: posts the ante 75
Mackerel1: posts small blind 400
coralcaves: posts big blind 800
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [5h 3h]
criina: folds
lobo92662: folds
chardrian: folds
Magic_JD: raises 1199 to 1999
stevecfred: folds
333billy333: calls 1999
Mackerel1: folds
Beatiful Man is connected
coralcaves: folds
*** FLOP *** [6c 9s Kd]
Magic_JD: checks
333billy333: checks
*** TURN *** [6c 9s Kd] [2h]
Magic_JD: checks
333billy333: checks
*** RIVER *** [6c 9s Kd 2h] [As]
Magic_JD: bets ??

Overbet the river? Might look like he's trying to steal it and it's possible that 333 hit his hand on the river and Magic might get a call.

bingo!

I can't really put 333 on anything other than a pair lower than the K, or Ax.

If he has the pair he is likely folding no matter what. If he has the A, he is likely calling. I really like just pushing that river.

A bare ace is likely calling a push for 2x pot? That's a negative IMO. I'd say this guy's most likely hands are a medium pair that wanted to get the money in on a safe flop and didn't get one, a hand like AQ/AJ, and KK trapping. I'm kind of convincing myself that he should check the river too (not that I would ever get to the river this way).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sprayed

Overbet the river? Might look like he flopped a set.

---

FYP

Medium pair - doesn't matter what you do.

AQ/AJ - he's calling.

KK - you're screwed either way.

And the fact that you might fold to the push thinking that's a set doesn't mean most will.

This was my only interesting hand from last night and I don't know how interesting it really was.

It's the $163 nightly on FT.

FullTiltPoker Game #5504080668: $65,000 Guarantee (40767303), Table 29 - 50/100 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:20:32 ET - 2008/03/04
Seat 1: ShiP ThA LooT (2,295)
Seat 2: imabigkidnow (2,680)
Seat 3: tfh43 (5,335)
Seat 4: chardrian (10,520)
Seat 5: Skuff (4,630)
Seat 6: urCHEKRAISE (7,760)
Seat 7: jpat56 (3,320)
Seat 8: Siema48 (1,907)
Seat 9: holdplz (2,775)
Siema48 posts the small blind of 50
holdplz posts the big blind of 100
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Kd Ah]
ShiP ThA LooT folds
imabigkidnow has 15 seconds left to act
imabigkidnow folds
tfh43 folds
chardrian raises to 300
Skuff calls 300
urCHEKRAISE calls 300
jpat56 folds
Siema48 has 15 seconds left to act
Siema48 folds
holdplz calls 200
*** FLOP *** [Qh 6s Ks]
holdplz checks
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian bets 770
Skuff calls 770
urCHEKRAISE raises to 7,460, and is all in
holdplz has 15 seconds left to act
holdplz folds
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian has requested TIME
chardrian ??

I've played with urcheckraise before cuz I had 200 hands on him. He was like 14/7/4. I wasn't paying close enough attention to realize that he had played his big hands slow previously, but they weren't on drawy boards in a multi-way pot. Skuff was just a calling station.

He either has it or he's on a draw. Preflop would suggest pp, Axs, and scs. I could see him with something like 2 pair or better and pushing on this board against two people that are showing strength. Either way, you are ahead here against his range. He would need to have a fairly tight range for this to be bad call IMO.

100 BB deep I'm going to fold. He's got you smoked here way too often and he rarely does this with TJ or KJ.

I agree, fold. It helps that the fish is going to come along with a hand that you own but it still won't be enough to call this bet.

Text results appended to pokerstove.txt

12,870 games 0.005 secs 2,574,000 games/sec

Board: Qh Ks 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 39.856% 17.02% 22.83% 2191 2938.50 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 60.144% 37.31% 22.83% 4802 2938.50 { 66, AKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, JsTs, AKo }

Man I'm such a nit when stacks are deep compared to crazy of a gambler I am when they're shallow.

yeah - I actually don't even think AK was in his range (but QK was) cuz he'd reraise that pre.

So I was either smoked, or was racing to the TsJs and AsT-Qs draws.

I'm actually thinking it was more likely a draw now, but meh.

meh, fold in the 163, esp given the 14/4 read. It sucks because AK/KK/QQ is obv discounted but we really need KJ etc in the range to make this a call.

Board: Ks Qh 6s

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 30.068% 29.90% 00.17% 5032 28.50 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 69.932% 69.76% 00.17% 11741 28.50 { 66, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, KQs, QsJs, QsTs, JsTs, Js9s, Ts9s, KQo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 47.460% 47.37% 00.09% 14537 28.50 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 52.540% 52.45% 00.09% 16096 28.50 { 66, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, KQs, QsJs, QsTs, JsTs, Js9s, Ts9s, 9s8s, 8s7s, KQo, JTo }

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 56.088% 50.68% 05.40% 28601 3049.50 { AhKd }
Hand 1: 43.912% 38.51% 05.40% 21730 3049.50 { QQ, 66, AKs, AsQs, AsJs, AsTs, KTs+, QsJs, QsTs, JsTs, Js9s, Ts9s, 9s8s, 8s7s, 5s4s, AKo, KTo+, JTo }

Why are my numbers wrong? I used the same as mcatdog or am I missing something?

Board: Qh Ks 6s
Dead:

equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 49.625% 39.33% 10.30% 10902 2854.00 { AhKh }
Hand 1: 50.375% 40.08% 10.30% 11110 2854.00 { 66, ATs+, KQs, JTs, AKo, KQo }

I see, I made AK soooooted and I was lazy and didn't make all the hands spades. I'm a donk.

Full Tilt Poker Game #6035018297: $25,000 KO Guarantee (45248057), Table 15 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:29:06 ET - 2008/04/14
Seat 1: nature_vall5 (3,175)
Seat 2: chardrian (2,945)
Seat 3: repin7 (2,915)
Seat 4: Tommy G 41 (1,835)
Seat 5: Aravin (2,160)
Seat 6: Curtass (3,230)
Seat 7: BaConDze (8,100)
Seat 8: P13XXX (2,640)
chardrian posts the small blind of 20
repin7 posts the big blind of 40
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Ad Ac]
Tommy G 41 folds
Aravin folds
Curtass folds
BaConDze folds
P13XXX raises to 80
nature_vall5 folds
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 225
repin7 folds
P13XXX calls 145
*** FLOP *** [3d 7c Ts]
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian bets 220
P13XXX calls 220
*** TURN *** [3d 7c Ts] [3s]
chardrian checks
P13XXX bets 400
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 800
P13XXX calls 400
*** RIVER *** [3d 7c Ts 3s] [Tc]
chardrian ???

The pot is close to 2500, my opponent has like 1300

I would just ship it in, he may check a lot of lower PPs behind and you can't fold if he shoves getting 3/1.

if he shoves the river i think we can fold cuz he's not going to do it as a bluff IMO after getting turn check/raised. However, shoving will get you action from a lot of worse hands so I'd rather shove than check/call.

If only the pot was bigger by this point it'd be a much easier decision.

yeah - I realize my line is very weird, but I still like my turn minraise.

I think I'm supposed to check/call or shove that river, but at the time I couldn't put him on anything other than the T and I check/folded.

I see pocket 7's as a strong possibility, so it is either check fold, or push. A push (repping a T) may get him to fold it.

Wouldn't he 3-bet 7s on the turn...he has plenty of reason to think were looking to get it in after our min raise...why wait? a T was my gut reaction too, but is he bad enough to show up with a T here that often after 3-bet and a check raise? JJ maybe? Really seems like shoving could be the play...but I'd probably c/f in the heat of the moment too.

haha this was fun.

FullTiltPoker Game #6139910787: $7,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (46048176), Table 1 - 600/1200 Ante 150 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:32:07 ET - 2008/04/22
Seat 1: LaidWayBack (79,025)
Seat 2: el67ko (31,860)
Seat 3: Diamon11 (26,515)
Seat 4: Zinzan (33,799)
Seat 5: callthebet (21,167)
Seat 6: chardrian (51,871)
LaidWayBack antes 150
el67ko antes 150
Diamon11 antes 150
Zinzan antes 150
callthebet antes 150
chardrian antes 150
el67ko posts the small blind of 600
Diamon11 posts the big blind of 1,200
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Th Jh]
Zinzan folds
callthebet folds
chardrian raises to 3,400
LaidWayBack has 15 seconds left to act
LaidWayBack raises to 7,200
el67ko folds
Diamon11 folds
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian calls 3,800
*** FLOP *** [5c 7c Js]
chardrian checks
LaidWayBack has 15 seconds left to act
LaidWayBack bets 6,000
chardrian calls 6,000
*** TURN *** [5c 7c Js] [Jd]
chardrian checks
LaidWayBack bets 7,500
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 38,521, and is all in
LaidWayBack has 15 seconds left to act
LaidWayBack calls 31,021
chardrian shows [Th Jh]
LaidWayBack shows [Ts Td]
*** RIVER *** [5c 7c Js Jd] [As]
chardrian shows three of a kind, Jacks
LaidWayBack shows two pair, Jacks and Tens
chardrian wins the pot (106,142) with three of a kind, Jacks
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 106,142 | Rake 0
Board: [5c 7c Js Jd As]
Seat 1: LaidWayBack (button) showed [Ts Td] and lost with two pair, Jacks and Tens
Seat 2: el67ko (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Diamon11 (big blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Zinzan folded before the Flop
Seat 5: callthebet folded before the Flop
Seat 6: chardrian showed [Th Jh] and won (106,142) with three of a kind, Jacks

which led to this chat...

LaidWayBack: callin a reraise with that?
chardrian: I guess so
LaidWayBack: make that call every time
LaidWayBack: you wanna switch avitars? (his is a donkey, mine is a monkey)
LaidWayBack: next time you wont hit trips on the turn and it will be against aces
callthebet folds
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
LaidWayBack: feel free to donk of some chips

I then sucked out w/ATs vs his AK the next hand.

wheeeeeeeeee.

The best part about this whole exchange is that I don't think he ever realized that if he had raised a reasonable amount I would have folded preflop.

villain is basically a mirror image of me.

A 20/10 ish type player, aggressive postflop. Some might say I should have raised pre here, which I think is fine, but I see nothing wrong with my flat call having position on him.

I do think there is a best way to play post flop tho..

FullTiltPoker Game #6289405836: $750,000 Guarantee (46885240), Table 35 - 80/160 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:50:22 ET - 2008/05/04
Seat 1: Arlene1995 (3,320)
Seat 2: ZaikBNimble (2,195)
Seat 3: Jaygreedy (5,045)
Seat 4: tryyy (8,060)
Seat 5: chardrian (5,995)
Seat 6: NATERtheHATER (4,874)
Seat 7: gamble24x7 (8,192)
Seat 8: poker plr 2 (6,420)
Seat 9: phareal15 (5,180)
phareal15 posts the small blind of 80
Arlene1995 posts the big blind of 160
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Th Tc]
ZaikBNimble folds
Jaygreedy folds
tryyy raises to 480
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian calls 480
NATERtheHATER folds
gamble24x7 has 15 seconds left to act
gamble24x7 folds
poker plr 2 folds
phareal15 folds
Arlene1995 folds
*** FLOP *** [6d 6s 7d]
tryyy bets 960
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian

This one is just me calling bs:

FullTiltPoker Game #6274123732: $12,000 Guarantee (Rebuy) (47082124), Table 11 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:34:28 ET - 2008/05/03
Seat 1: dyates345 (7,185)
Seat 2: krokarna (7,455)
Seat 3: Jupidor (51,198)
Seat 4: Delta1965 (10,110)
Seat 5: chardrian (7,331)
Seat 6: MG-POKER-1 (3,870)
Seat 7: mikeydread (3,400)
Seat 8: iwntmymummy (14,153)
Seat 9: mau69 (12,135)
dyates345 antes 25
krokarna antes 25
Jupidor antes 25
Delta1965 antes 25
chardrian antes 25
MG-POKER-1 antes 25
mikeydread antes 25
iwntmymummy antes 25
mau69 antes 25
Delta1965 posts the small blind of 120
chardrian posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #3
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Ac Qc]
MG-POKER-1 folds
mikeydread folds
iwntmymummy folds
mau69 has 15 seconds left to act
mau69 is sitting out
mau69 has timed out
mau69 folds
dyates345 folds
krokarna folds
mau69 has returned
Jupidor has 15 seconds left to act
Jupidor raises to 539
Delta1965 calls 419
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 2,066
Jupidor has 15 seconds left to act
Jupidor folds
Delta1965 calls 1,527
*** FLOP *** [3d 8h 5c]
Delta1965 has 15 seconds left to act
Delta1965 bets 4,896 (he hit the bet pot button)
chardrian raises to 5,240, and is all in
Delta1965 calls 344
chardrian shows [Ac Qc]
Delta1965 shows [Ad Td]
*** TURN *** [3d 8h 5c] [9s]
*** RIVER *** [3d 8h 5c 9s] [Ks]
chardrian shows Ace King high
Delta1965 shows Ace King high
chardrian wins the pot (15,376) with Ace King high
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 15,376 | Rake 0
Board: [3d 8h 5c 9s Ks]
Seat 1: dyates345 folded before the Flop
Seat 2: krokarna folded before the Flop
Seat 3: Jupidor (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Delta1965 (small blind) showed [Ad Td] and lost with Ace King high
Seat 5: chardrian (big blind) showed [Ac Qc] and won (15,376) with Ace King high
Seat 6: MG-POKER-1 folded before the Flop
Seat 7: mikeydread folded before the Flop
Seat 8: iwntmymummy folded before the Flop
Seat 9: mau69 folded before the Flop

On the AQ hand, he played it like an idiot and I never fold AK/AQ to people who take that line vs. me, except for on really horrible flops. I mean with your backdoor draws you nearly have pot odds to call vs. 99, if he's ever bluffing here (which he is) then folding is a big mistake.

On the TT hand, if he's the type of guy to do something really retarded with overcards then you can minraise and snap call a shove, but against a standard player I think you can just call and shutdown. If he wants to fire multiple barrels with air, let him have it this time, because if you had KK/AA you should be playing it the same way and stacking him on the turn.

yeah the TT hand is just a clusterfuck.

Thinking it through:

his range pre = ~ 66-AA, AJ+, QK (this is about 9%)

Postflop he is prolly c-betting 100% of his range on this board. So I am beating 88,99, AJ+, QK.

By raising/pushing I am getting value out of 88 and 99. That's it. I am stacking off to 66, 77, JJ-AA, and I am slightly behind in a race to AdJd-Kd. It is unlikely that two overcards call me here.

calling allows an overcard to hit, and over half of his range is overcards, + calling allows him to two barrel bluff me, so I don't mind taking it down right there by raising.

But any raise I make commits my stack so it is effectively a push, and I hate pushing when I'm behind, which is very likely here as well.

I dunno..

AQ: completely standard call.

TT: it might be a leak but I usually just call/shutdown yea. ppl cbet too much

I was snapcalling the first push. Second all-in is a decent 17/10 ish type player.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?2902806

hmm I guess it's a fold, I doubt bb is light here in a 55$.

yeah I folded, but I think it's close.

TT I am calling. 99 is right on the fence for me.

POKERSTARS GAME #19284900516: TOURNAMENT #98185718, $150+$12 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL II (15/30) - 2008/08/01 - 21:22:52 (ET)
Table '98185718 6' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: Kodalite (2323 in chips)
Seat 2: kevdog410 (3187 in chips)
Seat 3: tpir90036 (3535 in chips)
Seat 4: chardrian (3050 in chips)
Seat 5: BadcardsAA (2895 in chips)
Seat 6: ori23 (2680 in chips)
Seat 7: Chiefhonky (2335 in chips)
Seat 8: balla2310 (3885 in chips)
Seat 9: cuthbertt (3110 in chips)
balla2310: posts small blind 15
cuthbertt: posts big blind 30
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Tc Ts]
Kodalite: raises 60 to 90
kevdog410: folds
tpir90036: calls 90
chardrian: raises 360 to 450
BadcardsAA: folds
ori23: folds
Chiefhonky: folds
balla2310: folds
cuthbertt: folds
Kodalite: calls 360
tpir90036: raises 3085 to 3535 and is all-in
chardrian: ??

Kodalite is a spewtard. He is running like 60/40 this tourney and I've played with him before and this is just standard. My only note on tpir is that he's prone to tilt - but he hasn't taken a bad beat yet so I would just label him standard (after the fact I found out he won the Sunday million).

pot has like 3600, and it's about 2600 for me to call. I need about 42% equity to call.

So then the question is what range are we putting tpir on? I would think he woulda raised big hands pre to try to make sure that he can get koda's full stack. Then again he might be being sneaky with a monster knowing that koda spews enough that he can still get his full stack postflop.

77+,AK is a clear call. 99+, AK becomes a fold. If we take AK out of the range assuming he would raise that initially, 77+ is a call and 88+ is a fold.

So what is tpir's range?

If Koda is a real spewtard and you think it didn't go unnoticed to the table/tpir then you got to call.

call preflop...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Massimo

call preflop...

---

I don't like turning TT into 44.

standard or spewy??

Hand 1) Villain is tight overall like a 15/12 but attempts to steal is more like 20%

FullTiltPoker Game #7743194645: $15,000 Guarantee (58052612), Table 41 - 120/240 Ante 25 - No Limit Hold'em - 17:46:53 ET - 2008/08/21
cobere32: i think i could give one to my nephew, he'd like it
Seat 1: chardrian (6,710)
Seat 2: cobere32 (7,220)
Seat 3: snake20062 (3,750)
Seat 4: Chris Klecz (2,487)
Seat 5: mr_Potraider (3,090)
Seat 6: salettivari (17,430)
Seat 7: papabear220 (4,950)
Seat 8: theman2892 (10,353)
Seat 9: FUNKPIMP72 (4,135)
chardrian antes 25
cobere32 antes 25
snake20062 antes 25
Chris Klecz antes 25
mr_Potraider antes 25
salettivari antes 25
papabear220 antes 25
theman2892 antes 25
FUNKPIMP72 antes 25
FUNKPIMP72 posts the small blind of 120
chardrian posts the big blind of 240
The button is in seat #8
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Jc 9c]
cobere32 folds
snake20062 folds
Chris Klecz folds
mr_Potraider folds
theman2892: not a ad idea
salettivari has 15 seconds left to act
salettivari folds
papabear220 folds
theman2892 raises to 600
FUNKPIMP72 folds
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 2,145
theman2892 raises to 10,328, and is all in
chardrian: booooooo
chardrian calls 4,540, and is all in
Hand 2) villain just got moved to the table. I thought it was a squeeze with crap enough and my hand is good enough against a tight range that this was worth it. We were like 20 from the money at this point though, and I had a stack to sail into the money.

POKERSTARS GAME #19793353252: TOURNAMENT #102282826, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL X (300/600) - 2008/08/21 - 17:42:39 (ET)
Table '102282826 75' 9-max Seat #7 is the button
Seat 1: KYM888 (9096 in chips)
Seat 2: johndif (20512 in chips)
Seat 3: spocker2007 (7953 in chips)
Seat 4: yahigh (13995 in chips)
Seat 5: chardrian (21964 in chips)
Seat 6: Rcka (11674 in chips)
Seat 7: heyupsnatch (45304 in chips)
Seat 8: HULAGULA (16312 in chips)
Seat 9: snujj (38730 in chips)
KYM888: posts the ante 50
johndif: posts the ante 50
spocker2007: posts the ante 50
yahigh: posts the ante 50
chardrian: posts the ante 50
Rcka: posts the ante 50
heyupsnatch: posts the ante 50
HULAGULA: posts the ante 50
snujj: posts the ante 50
HULAGULA: posts small blind 300
snujj: posts big blind 600
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Ah Qd]
KYM888: folds
johndif: folds
spocker2007: folds
yahigh: folds
chardrian: raises 1000 to 1600
Rcka: folds
heyupsnatch: folds
HULAGULA: calls 1300
snujj: raises 3900 to 5500
chardrian: raises 16414 to 21914 and is all-in

J9 - 20% isn't a high enough att. to steal for this to be good. Just call preflop and check-bomb if you flop anything decent.

AQ - yes this is fine.

I knew something didn't look right. His attempt to steal is actually 27%.

But I don't mind the call/bomb line at all (in fact I'm known for it).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by mcatdog

AQ - yes this is fine.

---

Really, against an unknown villain who has us covered? I thought this was spewy and would usually fold in these spots. (I tend to give unknowns credit for hands until they prove otherwise). Do you think I am missing out on oportunities by doing this?

I have talked about the AQ hand with a number of people. Against a nit it is -EV, against anyone who has any tendency to 3-bet light there it is way better to shove than fold. So it is a really tough hand with no reads.

The raiser is agg, like a 34/15. I realize I can go'n'go here instead, but is getting it in bad w/23 BBs? Anyone like a flat better pre?

POKERSTARS GAME #19894252351: TOURNAMENT #103652958, $50+$5 HOLD'EM NO LIMIT - LEVEL VIII (150/300) - 2008/08/25 - 17:06:45 (ET)
Table '103652958 158' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: Casper21xx (19649 in chips)
Seat 2: tmoneyy (5185 in chips)
Seat 3: morbo1 (10953 in chips)
Seat 4: chardrian (6986 in chips)
Seat 5: ncswitdat (5990 in chips)
Seat 6: kholic (10406 in chips)
Seat 7: Ste511 (4930 in chips)
Seat 8: Easthaus (6567 in chips)
Seat 9: sporting1971 (5216 in chips)
Casper21xx: posts the ante 25
tmoneyy: posts the ante 25
morbo1: posts the ante 25
chardrian: posts the ante 25
ncswitdat: posts the ante 25
kholic: posts the ante 25
Ste511: posts the ante 25
Easthaus: posts the ante 25
sporting1971: posts the ante 25
chardrian: posts small blind 150
ncswitdat: posts big blind 300
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Kc Jc]
kholic: folds
Ste511: folds
Easthaus: raises 600 to 900
sporting1971: folds
Casper21xx: folds
tmoneyy: folds
morbo1: folds
chardrian: raises 6061 to 6961 and is all-in

Flat and fold seem pretty close, I don't really like anything else.

The real question here is what is his calling range?

88ish, AQ+ or so? shove looks kinda bluffy

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drmcboy

88ish, AQ+ or so? shove looks kinda bluffy

---

if that's his calling range then shove>fold

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by chardrian

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drmcboy

88ish, AQ+ or so? shove looks kinda bluffy

---

if that's his calling range then shove>fold

---

I think his calling range could be wider than that. He is a 34/15 which suggests he calls raises too often (or limps a lot). In these spots without much of a read I like to look at the guys attempt to steal %. If it is high then the 15% PFR becomes drastically reduced when in EP which combined with his possible tendency to call raises too often makes this hand a fold for me.

Obviously there are other factors to think about too. Does he appear to be looking for good spots to steal and is the BB a nit etc etc.... If on balance it looks like a spot to play then I am shoving.

great response HiLo.

it is a tight spot. mathwise if he is calling with AJ+,88+ this is basically EV neutral. The wider he calls, the more -EV it becomes.

Why would you want to get in an EV neutral spot at this point? Can you show your math?

I wouldn't want to get in an EV neutral spot. I am just noting that's the breakpoint. If I can get him to fold everything but 88+, AQ+ this is +EV, if I can't it is -EV.

Math:

Top 15% = 44+,A8s+,ATo+, JTs+ (any suited broadway), QJo+

Top 6.8% = AJ+,88+

6.8/15 = 45%

JKs is a 35/65 dog against 88+, AJ+

So if he is only calling 45% I am getting a fold 55%.

.55(1575 what I get if he folds) + .45((.35(7461 what I get if he calls and I win) + (.65(-6811 what I lose when he calls and wins) =

866 + .45(2611-4427) = 866-817 = +49

So I would be gaining 2 antes if he calls w/AJ+,88+

he isn't raising top 15% in EP, probably closer to 7.5%

given the guess work if it's this close I think shoving is bad since you have enough chips to outplay him on the flop and a nice flop seeing hand. He'd much rather play big pots with you and you're helping him.

First of all I don't think this guy calls with AJ. If he does then this is a bad play because you didn't take into account the possibility of the BB waking up with JJ+ or AK and calling you, which should be enough to make this a fold considering how marginal of a play it is already.

3% of the time you get called by the BB (I'm gonna assume MP folds every time, your equity only gets worse when he actually does call) and you are 26% against his range in a 13055 chip pot = -3320

44% MP calls and you lose 1816 as you noted above

53% everybody folds and you pick up 1575, also as you noted above

.53(1575) -.03(3320) -.44(1816) = -64

My range here would be something like 66+, AQ+, AJs, KQs, shoving KJs isn't a huge mistake by any means but I think I'd just fold it. If he had raised 2.5x I'd call but 750 chips seems like too many to call with.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by drmcboy

he isn't raising top 15% in EP, probably closer to 7.5%

---

I'm not sure I agree, this guy seems kinda bad and not too positionally aware. I don't think he's gonna look down at KJo and open fold it.

I concur.

TY for reminding me about omitting being looked up from my equation.

he has to limp sometimes!

KJs: fold > shove > call
AQ should be fine vs unknowns there.
J9s fold pre.

FullTiltPoker Game #7855639346: $32,000 Guarantee (59003565), Table 36 - 100/200 - No Limit Hold'em - 21:29:02 ET - 2008/08/29
Seat 1: comeback (6,215)
Seat 2: chardrian (7,150)
Seat 3: TrustMEclikFOLD (7,136)
Seat 4: FreddieAces (3,080)
Seat 5: parbuster52 (4,435)
Seat 6: FedK (10,585)
Seat 7: lavsy3 (2,785)
Seat 8: MeGaDonK82 (3,860)
Seat 9: Canadian-Tilt (8,030)
MeGaDonK82 posts the small blind of 100
Canadian-Tilt posts the big blind of 200
The button is in seat #7
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to chardrian [Ks Ah]
comeback has 15 seconds left to act
comeback folds
chardrian has 15 seconds left to act
chardrian raises to 600
TrustMEclikFOLD folds
FreddieAces calls 600
parbuster52 folds
FedK folds
lavsy3 folds
MeGaDonK82 folds
Canadian-Tilt folds
*** FLOP *** [6s 5s Jd] pot has 1500, opp has about 2500
chardrian ??

It's just such a gross spot. Bet/folding and check/folding both just seem way too weak; just shoving seems overboard; but bet/calling a shove seems like I'm likely behind.