KJ :/ in the SB

Been lurking for a while, lurker by nature i guess. started playing in Mar of this year, i must say i've learned a great deal from these forums and once i learn more id like to be able to help as well... any way on to the h h

(sorry about no pics for the suits, kept telling me i needed 10 posts for links/urls)

I had only been at the table for about 6 hands... this guy raised 3 or 4 of them pf if i remember correctly

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (4 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver .com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($52.90)
Hero ($19.50)
BB ($37.40)
UTG ($218.60)

Preflop: Hero is SB with K Diamonds, J Clubs.
UTG raises to $1.75, 1 fold, Hero calls $1.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($4) J Spades, T Diamonds, T Spades (2 players)
Hero bets $3.5, UTG raises to $7

call? shove? fold?

i might shove since youre a short stack. buy in full always. 4 handed i dont mind a call pre, but 6 handed im dumping KJ to a raise, especially in the blinds

I don't mean to be harsh, but by judging from the way you played this hand and your stack, you have learned nothing from this board.

Edit: Fold pre-flop and always buy in for full. You need to move down in stakes.

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

Edit: Fold pre-flop and always buy in for full. You need to move down in stakes.

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Quote:

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I had only been at the table for about 6 hands... this guy raised 3 or 4 of them pf if i remember correctly

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Deanglow

I don't mean to be harsh, but by judging from the way you played this hand and your stack, you have learned nothing from this board.

Edit: Fold pre-flop and always buy in for full. You need to move down in stakes.

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Some people like playing/ are better playing <100bbs. There's no law against it, although most advise buying in full. If I had a bigger edge playing 50BBs deep at 50NL than 100BBs deep at 25NL I don't see what's wrong with that...?

Preflop isn't that bad, given the read.

The read is a pretty small sample size, but if you're going to go with it, this is a push. I'd still probably fold PF - even 4-handed, KJo OOP isn't going to be any fun.

not that i'm trying to discredit the others, but i agree with you badger, i played the lowest stakes on fulltilt for about 2 months now, but i find that this quote holds true for me

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Originally Posted by soupie

If your play is sloppy and you find yourself bored, you arent risking enough. This is not the usual problem, most people tend to risk too much.

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I wasn't worried about putting my money into the pot with this guy. Actually, since i've moved up a level i've been playing better, having more fun, and made back almost all the money i lost in the lower stakes over the past 2 months, in about a week. Idk why the game seems so much clearer at these stakes

The default buy in is 20 on fulltilt for these tables, i should buy in for 50 (the max) you guys are saying?

Anyway i appreciate the responses, the next time one of these situations comes along ill wait until i have a better read before i get my money into the pot

This isn't buying in short; it's like the minimum.

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Originally Posted by BrianMac

The default buy in is 20 on fulltilt for these tables, i should buy in for 50 (the max) you guys are saying?

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yes, unless you're a good shortstack ninja

dominated broadways oop versus UTG raise = -ev.

There's nothing wrong with buying in short in principle, it makes post flop play much simpler but you have to play very tight pre flop. However if you are playing with bad players with full stacks who stack off too much then buy in full and target these players.

looks like brian is the latest to admit, publicly (not silently...lurking) that he's DOWN WITH THE SICKNESS. welcome aboard.

no problems shorting...as long as you know why you are doing it. if its a bankroll problem, move down and buy in full. if its because you dont like post flop play, fine. if its because you like forcing deeper stacks to vary their plays to different stack sizes, fine. if you like forcing mistakes preflop and on the flop, fine. for just about any other reason...at the lower stakes...you should buy in full, imo.

if you are shorting on purpose, this is a push. as a shorty, you are looking for decent to strong hands to make a stand with. when you get them, you dont care about the board as much anymore (one of the down falls), you push and let your FE/overbet put the decision on your opponent... who now knows his minuscule implied odds are gone.

if you were deeper its a call with a read, but possibly a fold, imo.

if you call, what do you do when the non-K overcard hits? or the flush card? or the 9? thats why you need a read before putting yourself in this position.

as a shorty, calling practically commits you to the hand. fold or push.

I went through a period where I thought shortstacking $100nl with a $25 buy-in would be more profitable than buying in full at $25nl. I was right really, you clear bonus/rakeback faster and players were very willing to stack off with mediocre holdings. There's no doubt that shortstacking can be profitable, especially in loose games. It doesn't really change the game much at lower levels but it sucks at higher levels when the overly-loose regs will tighten up because of good shortstack players.

i also shortied for awhile recently. i also thought it would be more profitable. it was fun, no doubt. forcing those guys all in on the flop/turn, and watch them call with crap draws......or watch as my combos hit and sucked out on them. pure action, for the junkie.

but, it wasnt anymore profitable for me, either...only more violent. i could handle the variance because the stacks were short. and, hell, what do you expect if you are looking to go to war with TP?

it taught me, though, what people will call you with. and, what people will c/r you with. and, what they will keep pushing with. etc. etc.

therefore, it kept my variance down...while i was learning/re-learning a newer level...therefore, gave me confidence.

decide what you will about shorting, it has both its ups and downs.