Lolz call right?

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08-31-2007, 11:35 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Lolz call right?

Opp is generally passive, opens 90% of hands from the BU.
POKERSTARS GAME #11791793189: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($1/$2) - 2007/08/31 - 11:29:39 (ET)
Table 'Hera II' 2-max Seat #2 is the button
Seat 1: heybude ($228.50 in chips)
Seat 2: AssoNero ($300.25 in chips)
AssoNero: posts small blind $1
heybude: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to heybude [As 9s]
AssoNero: raises $4 to $6
heybude: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [Ts Ah Ad]
heybude: checks
AssoNero: bets $6
heybude: calls $6
*** TURN *** [Ts Ah Ad] [9h]
heybude: checks
AssoNero: checks
*** RIVER *** [Ts Ah Ad 9h] [Jh]
heybude: bets $16
AssoNero: raises $272.25 to $288.25 and is all-in
heybude:
08-31-2007, 11:40 AM
bigspenda73

may seem offtopic: was that his normal cbet size?
08-31-2007, 11:41 AM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

may seem offtopic: was that his normal cbet size?

yes and that is very important good question. It was his standard cbet size.
08-31-2007, 12:17 PM
zook

lolz call, lolz pump fist, lolz cooler
08-31-2007, 12:18 PM
AHiltz

laughs and says "arrrrrr yin baby"
08-31-2007, 12:23 PM
Miffed22001

id come on my keyboard...then call and chop off my cock if i lose.
08-31-2007, 01:51 PM
bigspenda73

You guys really aren't looking at the range of hands he takes this line with.
08-31-2007, 02:37 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

You guys really aren't looking at the range of hands he takes this line with.

I was thinking TT, 99, JJ, AK, AQ, flush,straight all sometimes at least (a lot of HU donkeys)

AT and AJ i lose.
08-31-2007, 02:51 PM
bigspenda73

AT was the number 1 hand I'm putting him on with this line, then I realized a bd flush came in and I thought, meh, we cannot fold.
08-31-2007, 03:04 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

AT was the number 1 hand I'm putting him on with this line, then I realized a bd flush came in and I thought, meh, we cannot fold.

That was pretty much my reasoning.
08-31-2007, 03:05 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

AT was the number 1 hand I'm putting him on with this line, then I realized a bd flush came in and I thought, meh, we cannot fold.

Odd you say that, i thought KQ, and even on this board HU i think KQ is teh nuts,

taking a second look, min hand he prob does this with is a flush and def a boat. We dont beat any other boats and you dont see many HU players bet a flush/straight for this much value here and that strong, so this could very well be a very sick looking fold but because its HU and value betting so many nut type hands has to be done here i think i talk myself into a call.

Folding here and being right is sick, esp when our hand is so strong, and he could bet like this with so many really good hands we beat.
08-31-2007, 03:10 PM
bigspenda73

lol we do beat a few boats, TT/JJ

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not advocating a fold, I'm just not fist pumping/cumming on my keyboard as I call.
08-31-2007, 03:15 PM
dsaxton

Call and make money.
08-31-2007, 03:33 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigspenda73

lol we do beat a few boats, TT/JJ

Don't get me wrong guys, I'm not advocating a fold, I'm just not fist pumping/cumming on my keyboard as I call.

Yeah my nut wasn't quite there when he showed AT and then it went all limp.
08-31-2007, 03:50 PM
bigspenda73

Whoops, yep, I had this longwinded post written earlier about how it had to be AT but then I deleted it cuz I thought I'd just get flamed.
09-03-2007, 08:31 PM
Ash256

Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?
09-03-2007, 08:42 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?

Read my HU thought post, but he wasnt calling a lot of threebets so we're actually behind his calling range.
09-03-2007, 09:10 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

This is just as easily JJ, in fact JJ makes more sense.
09-04-2007, 12:11 PM
Ash256

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?

Read my HU thought post, but he wasnt calling a lot of threebets so we're actually behind his calling range.

lol

Shows how much I need to learn about poker, pretty obvious answer there. :P

So we're effectively maximizing our equity vs. his range by not threebetting.. so even though we've got what looks like a sexy top 15% style hand, we're best off playing against a very wide range that we beat marginally (60/40) than a narrow range that has us beat (40/60).. nice.

Also, if he folds way too much postflop, is it more +EV to take the bum-end of the range equity in exchange for fold equity?

With regards to the hand: shit man, awesome excercise in thinking.
09-04-2007, 12:19 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

So we're effectively maximizing our equity vs. his range by not threebetting.. so even though we've got what looks like a sexy top 15% style hand, we're best off playing against a very wide range that we beat marginally (60/40) than a narrow range that has us beat (40/60).. nice.

Also, if he folds way too much postflop, is it more +EV to take the bum-end of the range equity in exchange for fold equity?

If I had 86s would you even be mentioning about preflop? Probably not, but in fact that hand is a threebet a lot against this type of player. AT has very little value against his range and there's no doubt if we see a flop OOP im -EV for the rest of the hand. Calling pre we're obviously +EV against his range and have a lot of value when we flop and A or a T. Threebet pot we have no value in an A or a T.

Considering he's calling about 20% of my threebets its +EV to threebet any hand (obviously, if I did this his call % would go way up), but its not +EV in the whole strategy of the match.
09-04-2007, 12:23 PM
arkana

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

Out of interest, why not 3bet pre? We lack position, but fuck him, we beat his range, no?

Read my HU thought post, but he wasnt calling a lot of threebets so we're actually behind his calling range.

Just because we are behind his 3bet calling range does not mean we shouldn't 3 bet him, it just means we have to tighten up postflop if he calls.
09-04-2007, 12:27 PM
arkana

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ash256

So we're effectively maximizing our equity vs. his range by not threebetting.. so even though we've got what looks like a sexy top 15% style hand, we're best off playing against a very wide range that we beat marginally (60/40) than a narrow range that has us beat (40/60).. nice.

Also, if he folds way too much postflop, is it more +EV to take the bum-end of the range equity in exchange for fold equity?

If I had 86s would you even be mentioning about preflop? Probably not, but in fact that hand is a threebet a lot against this type of player. AT has very little value against his range and there's no doubt if we see a flop OOP im -EV for the rest of the hand. Calling pre we're obviously +EV against his range and have a lot of value when we flop and A or a T. Threebet pot we have no value in an A or a T.

Considering he's calling about 20% of my threebets its +EV to threebet any hand (obviously, if I did this his call % would go way up), but its not +EV in the whole strategy of the match.

What you are saying is that calling AT pf has a higher expected value then 3 betting with it, but your original reply made it sound like 3 betting with AT would be -EV because we would be behind his calling range which is not the case.
09-04-2007, 01:52 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Well yeah but as I said threebetting anything in a vacum versus this guy is +EV but its stupid to not consider the strategic elements of it. In the grand scheme of the match i dont think threebetting AT here is good and would think even in a vacum its more +EV to call it.