Trying to turn my 10-buyin downswing into something positive

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08-01-2007, 01:52 PM
andy609

Trying to turn my 10-buyin downswing into something positive

I'm down 10 buyins since April 4 over 11,100 hands at .50/1 on FT. Prior to that I was winning at 3.90 BB/100 over 9424 hands. Since April 4, there are 77 hands that I lost $20 or more on; I'd like to post a lot of those in small groups to look for leaks. I already posted two in separate threads. Here are the first six.

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

#1 Here I made the correct read that he was weak and drawing, it just turned out that he hit the queen. He was a weak player, calling a lot and playing lots of hands. I really hate when you call with a weak hand knowing your opponent is weak but their bs turns out to be better than yours; there needs to be a name for that.

BB ($102.70)
UTG ($151.70)
UTG+1 =#A500AF(Villian)/ ($78.25)
MP1 ($101.50)
MP2 ($125.40)
MP3 ($179.75)
CO ($178)
Hero ($93)
SB ($101.70)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $1, 4 folds, Hero raises to $5, 2 folds, UTG+1 =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $4.

Flop: ($11.50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $7.5, Villian calls $7.50.

Turn: ($26.50) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $15, Villian calls $15.

River: ($56.50) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Villian bets $50.75 (All-In), Hero calls $50.75.
Villian shows Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gifQhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif

Final Pot: $158

#2

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG+1 ($59)
MP1 ($121.80)
MP2 ($159.90)
Hero ($99.90)
CO ($118)
Button ($57.35)
SB ($180.95)
BB ($165.70)
UTG ($51.15)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
2 folds, MP1 raises to $3.5, 1 fold, Hero calls $3.50, 3 folds, BB calls $2.50.

Flop: ($11) 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (3 players)
BB checks, MP1 bets $8, Hero raises to $25, BB folds, MP1 raises to $126.3 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $40.30

#3

Some of these are embarassing

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($99.15)
Button ($83.90)
SB =#A500AF(Villian)/ ($33.35)
BB ($100)
UTG ($37.50)
UTG+1 ($131.60)
MP1 ($94.05)
Hero ($85.05)
MP3 ($100)

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises to $3.5, 3 folds, SB =#A500AF(Villian)/ calls $3, 1 fold.

Flop: ($8) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $5, Villian calls $5.

Turn: ($18) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Villian checks, Hero bets $12, Villian raises to $24.85 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $29.15

#4

Shortstacks drive me nuts, but am I really ahead often enough to call?

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($20)
UTG ($90.80)
UTG+1 ($38.50)
MP1 ($184.45)
MP2 ($12.85)
CO ($101)
Hero ($91.25)
SB ($56.65)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
5 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, BB raises to $21 (All-In), Hero calls $16.

Flop: ($40.50) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Turn: ($40.50) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($40.50) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $40.50

#5

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

MP2 ($101.95)
MP3 ($11)
Hero ($92)
Button ($42.40)
SB ($87.65)
BB ($63)
UTG ($253)
UTG+1 ($100)
MP1 ($45.80)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
4 folds, Hero raises to $4, 1 fold, SB calls $3.50, 1 fold.

Flop: ($9) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $6, SB raises to $14, Hero calls $8.

Turn: ($37) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (3 players)
SB bets $20, Hero raises to $74 (All-In), SB calls $49.65 (All-In).

SB shows JJ.

River: ($176.30) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (3 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $176.31

#6

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($40)
SB ($13)
BB ($186)
Hero ($111.70)
UTG+1 ($49.10)
MP1 ($85.45)
MP2 ($203.50)
MP3 ($77.75)
CO ($45.50)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
Hero raises to $3, 3 folds, MP3 raises to $10.5, 4 folds, Hero calls $7.50.

Flop: ($22.50) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets $18, Hero raises to $101.2 (All-In), MP3 calls $49.25 (All-In).

MP3 shows QQ.

Turn: ($157) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

River: ($157) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 2 all-in)

Final Pot: $157
08-01-2007, 02:50 PM
Pants_101

I can offer a few thoughts for what they are worth.

Hand 1 If he's a calling station then betting with a hand that can showdown seems ok but when he wakes up and starts betting I think you should give him credit for a hand. It's ok to fold even having made several bets.

Hand 2 You tried to move him off his missed overs and he announced a big pair. I wonder if calling and betting the turn if he checks might be a better play. Interested in what others think.

Hand 3 I guess 2nd barrels can be read dependent, I'm not very good at choosing the right times. Here though has he called you with a gutshot? Any other hand is beating you. I'd check the turn and fold to any big bet on the river.

Hand 4 Shortstacks vary a lot but still if he's reraising you I'd put him on a bigger pair or a fairly strong ace. So you will either be a very slight favourite or a big dog. Shortstacks profit when big stacks play too loosely against them, you need card strength to take them on. I'd fold

Hand 5 is bad luck

Hand 6 I think you call pf of his 3 bet is marginal at best. You are calling $7.5 to win $80 so you need to stack him every time you hit to profit. As we see even when you get it all in sometimes you get unlucky.

Hope some of that helped
08-01-2007, 04:21 PM
martindcx1e

1) The river call is really really bad. Doing that will definitely help you lose 10 buy-ins quickly.

2) I think this is fine. Calling and betting a checked turn does the same thing I think.

3) After the flop call don't put anymore money in. He doesn't care that you are the PFR and the flop brought cards that should help you.

4) Fold.

5) This is a bad beat.

6) Fold to the pre-flop re-raise. The rest is a bad beat.
08-01-2007, 05:11 PM
Fnord

WTB: More fish before the mediocre players go busto.
08-01-2007, 06:22 PM
wufwugy

Move down to well below your roll; splash about, figure things out.
08-01-2007, 08:06 PM
andy609

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

WTB: More fish before the mediocre players go busto.

What's WTB?
08-02-2007, 12:43 AM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by andy609

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

WTB: More fish before the mediocre players go busto.

What's WTB?

It means "Where to buy?"
08-02-2007, 01:48 AM
Fnord

Want To Buy
08-02-2007, 02:32 AM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fnord

Want To Buy

or that one :D
08-02-2007, 01:58 PM
SteveO

Couple of the hands on the end are just bad luck since you are supposed to win or lose big pots with sets and FH's.

The biggest leak I see is overplaying your small and medium pairs. I don't mind PF raises to build the pot when you hit but the continuation bets and calls with medium and low pairs where the board has 2 or more overs is a BIG leak long term. The "bad" players are going to splash with you with K10 and Arag so when you make that continuation bet and face resistance it is time to give it up.
08-02-2007, 02:40 PM
andy609

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

The biggest leak I see is overplaying your small and medium pairs. I don't mind PF raises to build the pot when you hit but the continuation bets and calls with medium and low pairs where the board has 2 or more overs is a BIG leak long term. The "bad" players are going to splash with you with K10 and Arag so when you make that continuation bet and face resistance it is time to give it up.

I can't tell if you're saying don't cbet at all with 2 or more overs, or to give up when it's called. Obviously, the turn bet with 88 on the AKT flop was disgusting, hence my embarassed comment. But should I have not even attempted the flop bet?
08-02-2007, 03:11 PM
SteveO

I would essentially never c-bet on a board w/ 3 overs. I wouldn't even consider it. I would c-bet only occasionally if there are 1 or 2 overs. Of course your c-bets depend on what's going on. Like whether you are heads up and position.

Almost never c-bet with 2 or more overs.
Occasionally c-bet with only 1 over heads up.
If your c-bet is called almost always give it up unless a scare card hits the turn and gives you an opportunity to bluff.
08-02-2007, 04:21 PM
martindcx1e

I probably wouldn't cbet the broadway flop as it is pretty likely that villain got a piece of it. Cbets are meant to make people fold so only do it when you think there's a good chance that they will fold.
08-02-2007, 05:02 PM
Trashcona

???? Am I missing something here? Aren't we supposed to be representing that K/A/etc... that falls on the flop when we cbet? I cbet alot and that's where a chunk of my money is made, broadways or not.
08-02-2007, 05:56 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trashcona

???? Am I missing something here? Aren't we supposed to be representing that K/A/etc... that falls on the flop when we cbet? I cbet alot and that's where a chunk of my money is made, broadways or not.

I can see the argument about that kind of flop being the flop that should hit us. Cbets are meant to make people fold though, and if you cbet too much when there's a high chance that your opponent will call then you are losing money. Most players play a lot hands that a flop of TKA will hit.
08-02-2007, 06:09 PM
SteveO

First since HoH people c-bet too much and it is exploitable.

Second, c bet is fine heads up with ONE over-card but when your getting 2-3 overcards I hardly think a cbet is +EV in the long run.

My second point is, after the cbet is called and you don't improve I think you need to back off and give up on the hand by folding to bet on later street or showing down as cheap as possible.
08-03-2007, 04:05 AM
Pants_101

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

Second, c bet is fine heads up with ONE over-card but when your getting 2-3 overcards I hardly think a cbet is +EV in the long run.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think it's very much dependent on the board and the opponnent. If I raise pf with 22 and get 1 caller and the flop comes K95 rainbow I'm definitely going to continuation bet and expect to take it down overcards notwithstanding.
08-03-2007, 01:56 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants_101

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

Second, c bet is fine heads up with ONE over-card but when your getting 2-3 overcards I hardly think a cbet is +EV in the long run.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think it's very much dependent on the board and the opponnent. If I raise pf with 22 and get 1 caller and the flop comes K95 rainbow I'm definitely going to continuation bet and expect to take it down overcards notwithstanding.

That's what he said was fine.
08-03-2007, 05:05 PM
Trashcona

If we're talking stricly about the AKT flop, I agree that's not the best spot to cbet. I was talking in more general terms.
08-03-2007, 06:07 PM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trashcona

If we're talking stricly about the AKT flop, I agree that's not the best spot to cbet. I was talking in more general terms.

lol nice try :oops:
08-04-2007, 06:20 PM
Pants_101

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants_101

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

Second, c bet is fine heads up with ONE over-card but when your getting 2-3 overcards I hardly think a cbet is +EV in the long run.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think it's very much dependent on the board and the opponnent. If I raise pf with 22 and get 1 caller and the flop comes K95 rainbow I'm definitely going to continuation bet and expect to take it down overcards notwithstanding.

That's what he said was fine.

Eh? with 22 all cards are overs it may still be right to c-bet though
08-05-2007, 03:24 AM
martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants_101

Quote:

Originally Posted by martindcx1e

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pants_101

Quote:

Originally Posted by SteveO

Second, c bet is fine heads up with ONE over-card but when your getting 2-3 overcards I hardly think a cbet is +EV in the long run.

I'm not sure I agree with this, I think it's very much dependent on the board and the opponnent. If I raise pf with 22 and get 1 caller and the flop comes K95 rainbow I'm definitely going to continuation bet and expect to take it down overcards notwithstanding.

That's what he said was fine.

Eh? with 22 all cards are overs it may still be right to c-bet though

lol ya sorry for some reason i kept reading "overs" as "broadways" which, if i'm not mistaken, is what steve meant.
08-05-2007, 07:14 AM
Miffed22001

1. Sucks, i think opp shows how bad he is calling a second barrel here. Id buddy list him as a fish.

2. Raising flop is bad imo. opp is oop and has to make a decision on turn if we call flop rather than raising it. In these games they arent going to 2nd barrel so much so i think this is a little spewy. fwiw, i used to raise here too lots...

3. c/f flop. If opp doesnt have a small pp then his whole range hit that flop and he wants to see later streets regardless. And you could just be betting into better hands. Spew all the way baby :(

4. fold. Weak but best. 99+ is my call range here i think. Opps are pushing 99-JJ range here loads so i think calling with a big ace/KQ type hands is better perhaps...

5. lol. I know why you posted it but lol.

6. same again. Fwiw, i still think small pps utg is not a raise but at 100nl that may not be correct... my 2cents certainly.

Fwiw, youre losing massive fav hands lots and spewing a little inb the wrong places. Sometimes you have to accept your hand is no good and a c-bet is just spew (88 into the broadway flop is an example IMO)
other than that you play ok it seems, nothing wrong.
08-05-2007, 06:30 PM
spoonitnow

#1 - I don't like the second barrel here but it's okay I guess, and as played, I don't think we can call the river.

#2 - Seems fine to me.

#3 - Really really don't like the second barrel here.

#4 - You're calling 16 to win 25ish? You only have to win 40% or so to breakeven and you have like 41.3% equity against 88+, ATs+, KTs+, AJo+ for example, so tough to call in this particular spot since villain is likely not on that loose of a range.

#5 - I might just call on the turn since SB seems to have his mind set on putting all of his chips in the pot one way or another and a turn push might scare him off, but it's fine.

#6 - Very bad call preflop. Also, why push for 3x the pot right up front? I'd probably call and check/raise turn instead since you pick up more bets from AK trying to represent a big pair and when AK hits an ace or king on the turn.

P.S. Hi Miffed.
08-05-2007, 09:36 PM
Miffed22001

Quote:

Originally Posted by spoonitnow

#1 - I don't like the second barrel here but it's okay I guess, and as played, I don't think we can call the river.

#2 - Seems fine to me.

#3 - Really really don't like the second barrel here.

#4 - You're calling 16 to win 25ish? You only have to win 40% or so to breakeven and you have like 41.3% equity against 88+, ATs+, KTs+, AJo+ for example, so tough to call in this particular spot since villain is likely not on that loose of a range.

#5 - I might just call on the turn since SB seems to have his mind set on putting all of his chips in the pot one way or another and a turn push might scare him off, but it's fine.

#6 - Very bad call preflop. Also, why push for 3x the pot right up front? I'd probably call and check/raise turn instead since you pick up more bets from AK trying to represent a big pair and when AK hits an ace or king on the turn.

P.S. Hi Miffed.

spoonitnow is a god :)

sup!
08-06-2007, 07:39 AM
pantherhound

1. cf river
2. read? float reasonable
3. keep pot small. i check behind on flop
4. read? without, its close. i fold though
5. reraise flop
6 fine
08-06-2007, 01:20 PM
djzcko

H1: If you think he is weak and drawing, then bet strong not a weak 1/2 pot bet on the turn. Also, once he woke up and bet out OOP, you gotta respect that and fold.

H2: Why raise that flop? Smooth call, hope an 8 falls on the turn and see how he bets it on the next street. If he bets big on the turn, he's probably got a big overpair so you can fold. If he checks, you can bet at the pot with some confidence that you are goot.

H3: No use cbetting here IMO. With 3 overs on the board, chances are he hit something and so I just shut it down and C/F. I might cbet if villain is uber tight and then c/f if called.

H4: Gambool!

H5: On tight tables, I do the same. great flop, awsome turn...bad result. Good play though...

H6: Obv has a big pair, he has 10x behind so I'd call for set value as well. Bad result. Meh.
08-07-2007, 12:31 AM
Vi-Zer0Skill

Hand 1: This is a fine spot to double barrel. Just double barrel for $21-22 instead of $15.

Hand 2: Here i would try to keep the pot smaller. If villain fires at the turn we can reevaluate, since 8-8 is ahead of a reasonable amount of an aggressive opponents double barrelling range. And if he checks we acquire the pot a higher % of the time.

Hand 4: definitely call AI preflop.

Hand 6: is close but i prefer a fold in a spot like this. Even when i am confident an opponent has a big pair i want at least 12:1 IO to call with a smaller pair PF. A good player could avoid stacking off with K-K/A-A in a 3bet pot on a really nasty flop, though almost never for only 70BB's. Still you are only getting 10:1 and there is no guarantee villain is holding K-K/A-A.