Some tough frickin hands...

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07-24-2007, 02:52 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Some tough frickin hands...

Take me to Valuetown? I think NOT!

Villain in this hand is a 21/17, pretty aggressive player. I've seen him make some flop raises that were pure bluffs. He probably views me as pretty aggro. I've never seen him bluff on the river, and i don't think this is ever a bluff.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($239.40)
BB ($413.40)
Hero ($635.90)
MP ($115.20)
Button ($388)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif.
Hero raises to $16, 3 folds, BB calls $12.

Flop: ($34) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $24, BB calls $24.

Turn: ($82) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $60, BB calls $60.

River: ($202) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
BB bets $76, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $202

Good player with some history

Villain in this hand is TalentedTom. He runs about 20/16, 3-bets a pretty light but a linear range (never seen him 3-bet with sc's). Here are some relevant hands from today with him:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($529)
BB ($247.55)
UTG ($412)
MP ($391.40)
CO ($176.10)
Hero ($453)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
1 fold, MP raises to $12, 1 fold, Hero raises to $40, 2 folds, MP calls $28.

Flop: ($86) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $60, MP calls $60.

Turn: ($206) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero checks.

River: ($206) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
MP checks, Hero bets $125, MP raises to $291.4, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $456

We chatted after the hand, he claimed he had a strong hand and i implied that i was bluffing.

This hand he was definitely pissed off about...

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

UTG ($416)
MP ($394)
Hero ($394)
Button ($778.40)
SB ($457.20)
BB ($844.50)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $12, 2 folds, BB raises to $48, Hero calls $36.

Flop: ($98) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
BB bets $60, Hero raises to $346, BB calls $286.

Turn: ($790) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)

River: ($790) Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $790

He had KJo no heart

TalentedTom said, "jesus"

And then this happens right after at another table. This is the hand in question:

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (3 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($884.30)
Button ($424.55)
Hero ($921.70)

Preflop: Hero is SB with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
Button raises to $12, Hero raises to $40, 1 fold, Button calls $28.

Flop: ($84) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $55, Button calls $55.

Turn: ($194) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, Button checks.

River: ($194) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $120, Button raises to $329.55, Hero ????????????.

YOU NIT

Villain in this hand is Jamie217, a straightforward 19/16 TAGG who i almost never see marginally bluff and i find is easy to handle. He definitely does threebet light though, thus i felt the 4-bet was necessary. I had 4-bet him once before a few hands ago OOP and he folded.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

BB ($342.75)
UTG ($382.70)
Hero ($796.60)
CO ($820.10)
Button ($404)
SB ($487.60)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif.
1 fold, Hero raises to $16, CO raises to $60, 3 folds, Hero raises to $165, CO calls $105.

Flop: ($336) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $192, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $336
07-24-2007, 03:01 PM
sauce123

hand 1- odds r far too good insta call

hand 2- first, talented tom runs closer to 24/16 or 17. second he is a tight 3bettor and when he calls you OOP ur hand is essentially a bluff- id check behind on flop.

hand 3- TT is owning you haha- on river he never calls your bet with worse fwiw and i think you should probably fold.

hand 4- disaster. bet/call flop and move on WTF WERE YOU THINKING?!?!?!?

max- these r all really really really bad and not even close to marginal
07-24-2007, 03:18 PM
IowaSkinsFan

hand 1: insta call wtf ur getting like 6 to 1
hand 2"I like the line you took as played on the flop, but flop seems like an easy check behind.
hand 3: i dont think talented tom threebets light
hand 4: I was just discussing this hand with ben, it's actually a really easy c/f on the turn, if he checks behind it may be a call to a river bet. He's never vbetting with worse on the turn, if he called the flop with worse its because he was hoping he was ahead if u checked the turn, and therefore doesnt need to bet.
You can't play for stacks here because TT never stacks of with worse.
hand 5: Flop is a bet fold as played, but seriously, you pretty much just turned your hand into a bluff. Jamie is never calling the fourbet with worse, and you can't call a shove pre, so what are you doing?
07-24-2007, 03:31 PM
sauce123

hand 5 is definitely the worst. ur play of preflop/flop and how u readjusted his ranges is just completely illogical
07-24-2007, 03:45 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Just FYI i'm not asking about hand 2 or 3, comments are always fine though.
07-24-2007, 04:18 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Just FYI i'm not asking about hand 2 or 3, comments are always fine though.

idk why really ur pointing this out. Might as well get comments on everything.
07-24-2007, 04:20 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Just FYI i'm not asking about hand 2 or 3, comments are always fine though.

idk why really ur pointing this out. Might as well get comments on everything.

it's just cause people don't like posting about 5 hands at once.
07-24-2007, 04:22 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Just FYI i'm not asking about hand 2 or 3, comments are always fine though.

idk why really ur pointing this out. Might as well get comments on everything.

it's just cause people don't like posting about 5 hands at once.

do you think what me and sauce said is correct or are u refraining from a rebuttle?
07-24-2007, 04:38 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by Massimo

Just FYI i'm not asking about hand 2 or 3, comments are always fine though.

idk why really ur pointing this out. Might as well get comments on everything.

it's just cause people don't like posting about 5 hands at once.

do you think what me and sauce said is correct or are u refraining from a rebuttle?

I'm waiting for rebuttle, but that doesn't mean i disagree with you.
07-25-2007, 11:17 AM
Numbr2intheWorld

Ok, my responses.

Hand 1: the board is AK56T, no flush draws, i'm facing a river bet of $20 in a $100 pot, i have Tx, Do i call because my pot odds? I feel that you guys are ignoring that nothing makes sense here besides a Kx or better (Do you not agree?). QQ is RRing pre, AJ... well it's a slim possibility but only one. Yes, i know this guy doesn't play exactly like me, but from what i saw of him he was solid, just pretty aggro, and i highly highly doubt that he thinks he has any FE here. Yes he needs to be beating me 80% of the time, and as stupid as it may sound i believe that this is the case.

Hand 2: Yeah i understand now why the flop is a check behind.

Hand 3 (according to Sauce, skipping the 97s hand): I agree that i probably should've c/c the river instead of bet/call. It was a hard spot for me because i had seen him river raise after checking behind the turn a lot, and i was pretty sure he was a little semitilted from the last hand.

Hand 4/5 ( Jamie Hand): I don't know what your impression of this guy is Sauce, but from what i know here's how he'd play this. He's probably calling here with preflop AA-JJ, AK, possibly TT. On the flop With TT-JJ he'd check behind the flop, and also with AKo. He may even check behind AK with a FD. He's betting QQ-AA. Maybe i'm giving this guy too little credit, but he is definitely wayyy too nitty postflop for me to want to bet/call. Maybe with your image it is.
07-25-2007, 11:37 AM
sauce123

max first of all not calling there with aces is just retarded i dont know what else to tell you

second on that hand vs jamie i dont understand why ur 4betting if ur check/folding when he calls. ive never played with this particular player so i cant say whether ur right or wrong but just thinking logically:

1. if u 4bet and he calls u have to check/fold any flop not containing a queen

if this premise is true then im pretty sure 4betting him preflop was your biggest mistake.

u said earlier u thought he had been 3betting a lot- if this is true just 4bet 65s or something not QQ.
07-25-2007, 01:20 PM
IowaSkinsFan

the big problem with the Jamie hand is you fourbet pre which was a really huge leak. On the flop it seems like a pretty easy bet/fold, this guy doesnt get aggro at all, if he shoves we're never ahead. If he tanks and then shoves, i may call because it seems a lot like QQ/JJ.
07-25-2007, 02:15 PM
Numbr2intheWorld

Quote:

Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

the big problem with the Jamie hand is you fourbet pre which was a really huge leak. On the flop it seems like a pretty easy bet/fold, this guy doesnt get aggro at all, if he shoves we're never ahead. If he tanks and then shoves, i may call because it seems a lot like QQ/JJ.

4-betting was bad, i agree with you and sauce now.

However, since i think he's never floating a crap hand here, and that he'll check behind the flop with everything i'm beating, why shouldn't i check the flop? Against plenty of 2/4 players i bet this flop, but against this guy i think checking will make my hand much easier to play. Not that i think betting the flop would be terrible but i think checking is better even though i'm OOP.