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This post is obv. prompted by me just getting burnt again trying to steal a big pot off someone who couldn't lay down his hand.
Just wondered what ppl thought the best evidence of a true laydown was as opposed to folding to resistance after a c-bet/2nd barrel.
put the player on a range. if it's mathematically profitable to call then do so, if not then fold.
you can't define "good call". if a calling station calls you down with bottom pair and you are an extremely tight player then it is not a good call. if you fold the 2nd nuts to a bad player that bluffs 80% of the time then it's a bad fold.
offline it's completely different because you have so many more ways to read a players hand.
just don't try bluffing a calling station and if you feel that he made a "bad" call then try and exploit it when you have a good hand.
Probably a lack of clarity in my orig. post - I was meaning what do you notice in other players games that lets you know they are making laydowns of reasonable hands so you can exploit it by getting cheeky :)
The most obvious sign I suppose would be a player who is normally passive post-flop who leads out strongly on the flop and turn but then check/folds the river when faced with a big bet...
Well, you just found out by unsuccessfully bluffing them, didn't you?
The cheaper and slower way is to hit some hands and see what they call you down with.
some of them will tell the truth if you ask them.
when he folds, offer up your hand, and ask him what he had. you only need confirmation once to see that he lays down bigguns.
or ask him when he does it in a hand you are NOT in with him. he may be more apt to oblige when you werent in the hand.
OP raises a good debate. If you set out to exploit players more than just cbetting you need detailed knowledge of their calling tendencies, how often they call flop but shut down on the turn, how far they take their hands, their aggressiveness, whether they might be tilting, etc etc.
I started a thread about this a while ago, I think called 'boost your bb/100', there were some interesting replies in that one
hehe - i guess sometimes simplicity is best! I will give this a try.Quote:
Originally Posted by Chopper
Personally I never usually chat much when playing online and if I do am prone to telling lies! I am an honest chap away from the poker table but I can't think it is EV+ to admit to making big laydowns at a table full of aggro players!
so are they...but sometimes you will get the goods.
btw, you can buddy up with him, too. start saying nice things. chat about bullshit. and 10 minutes later...ask "what did you have back there, btw?"
sometimes that one works, too.
and youre right, why give away the goodies if you dont have to showdown. but some will, all you have to do is ask. all they can do is sit tight. and that cant hurt. nothing to lose there.
You get barely anything off them on your good hands.