Donkey Magnet?

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05-02-2007, 05:16 PM
Tobler

Donkey Magnet?

For the past 2 weeks or so, I have been on a serious downslide. I can the handle the bad beats, or by making a bad read and paying for it. The big reason for my slide are the donkey's. Yes I know we want them, it just seems that I consistently drop money to them. Like this hand

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (8 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($8.35)
Button ($4.65)
SB ($27.30)
BB ($6.20)
UTG ($9.75)
UTG+1 ($52.05)
Hero ($33.15)
MP2 ($20.95)

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $1, MP2 calls $1, 4 folds.

Flop: ($2.35) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $1, MP2 calls $1.

Turn: ($4.35) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $3, MP2 calls $3.

River: ($10.35) Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
Hero bets $5, MP2 calls $5.

Final Pot: $20.35

Results in white below:
Hero has As Ac (one pair, aces).
MP2 has Tc 7c (two pair, tens and sevens).
Outcome: MP2 wins $20.35.

The $5 river bet was small, because I had a feeling that he sucked out on me. And that's the reason why I post this, for the fact, that hand's like this have probably caused me to fold winning hand's. I have taken breaks, 2 or 3 days to start fresh again. This hand is after a 2 day break. Only to have it happen again and again. I guess what I'm looking for is some words of wisdom, how to get through these type of hands without pulling my hair out.
05-02-2007, 05:35 PM
Ash256

Downswings happen! Simple as.
05-02-2007, 05:43 PM
Benoso

He probably would have called anyway, but you should bet $2 on the flop, not $1.
05-02-2007, 06:12 PM
biondino

Re-read your post, Tobler, and then make a new post pointing out the misleading, fishy or plain wrong concepts in it from a neutral, distant perspective, as if you were advising a noob. it might prove enlightening!
05-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Chopper

dude, be glad he didnt minraise you on the river. he should have. the fact he didnt should give you a little solice that HE IS A FISH!!

your line wasnt bad, imo. maybe a bit more of a bet on the flop, but he wasnt prolly going anywhere with that huge flop of a 7. ;)
05-03-2007, 03:23 AM
Miffed22001

20%er. Ask lee for an upswing.

In serious tones, it will happen, you will run bad, just accept that you are playing as good poker as possible, which you pretty much are, and just wait for it to end.
05-04-2007, 12:29 PM
andmunn

Talk about downswings...
I ran up nicely in about 1 month from 850 --> 1700 bankroll, playing TAG poker at .10/.25 and .25/50 - i've since run down to about $1420 with what's a combination of "downswing", "tilt", and just frustration.

Today, playing .25/50 i get AA on the bottom, someone raising 4x BB, i re-raise 3x his raise - and he flat calls. Flop is A, 8, 6 rainbow - no flush draws. We both go all in on the flop.. with about $140 in the pot at this point. Low and behold, he has trip 8's, i have trip A's...and he pulls a 4th 8 on the river.

I'm immediately down about $70, tilt off another $20, and call it a night after 45 minutes....

Bah!
Had to rant...
Andrew.
05-04-2007, 01:01 PM
Miffed22001

only on stars...
05-04-2007, 03:41 PM
Tobler

Quote:

Originally Posted by biondino

Re-read your post, Tobler, and then make a new post pointing out the misleading, fishy or plain wrong concepts in it from a neutral, distant perspective, as if you were advising a noob. it might prove enlightening!

Sorry I haven't responded sooner, in the middle of a house project. I have taken you advise and reread it several times actually. And the only answer I can come of this response is, this is your polite way of saying that I might just be the donkey. Either that or shave my head so I have no hair to pull out. LOL

Ok, I can accept the fact I'm not great at this game or even my betting patterns are not up to par. I'm still a novice and read these forums on a regular basis, to learn more from the ones that win and play at a higher level then most of us.

What would I tell a noob, well I'm still a noob myself so I'm not quite sure what to say here. So I would tell the noob these things happen it's part of the game.

Andrew I feel your pain....
05-04-2007, 03:46 PM
cardsman1992

Quote:

So I would tell the noob these things happen it's part of the game.

That's one thing I would say!!!

I would bet this flop harder, $2 at least. He may still call you down and river you. But he would be making bad calls, at least.......
05-04-2007, 03:50 PM
andrthx_me

That's not so bad... sometimes you have to go on downfalls too... it wouldn't be poker if you wouldn't
05-15-2007, 09:14 PM
Tobler

Quote:

In serious tones, it will happen, you will run bad, just accept that you are playing as good poker as possible, which you pretty much are, and just wait for it to end.

Well it's been 2 weeks since I made this post. The losses weren't as severe during this time. Tightened up turned, Aokrongly's 19 hands into 13 hands. To assure I wouldn't chase any draws, and to get the winning feeling back.

Because of this hand

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with K :club: K :diamond:
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises to $1.5, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG raises to $6.5, MP2 calls, Hero folds, Button folds.

Flop: T :heart: A :heart: 7 :club: ($16.35, 2 players)
UTG checks, MP2 bets $2, UTG raises all-in $10.8, MP2 calls all-in $7.3.
Uncalled bets: $1.5 returned to UTG.

Turn: 7 :spade: ($34.95, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $34.95)

River: J :diamond: ($34.95, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $34.95)

Results:
Final pot: $34.95
UTG showed Ac Ad
MP2 mucks Tc As

I've played 500 plus hands with UTG, his preflop raise is a 3.5. Between my notes and my hud he only raised, quick math was between 15 and 20 times, nothing in my notes on him, said anything about reraising. So I could only put him on one hand AA. Some of you might think I'm crazy folding K's on a 25 NL. But again between my notes and hud I felt I had no choice but to fold and move on to the next hand.

I have been on a 3 day upswing with today being a huge day for me. I post this not only for me but for those who are struggling as I have been. With a tough decision like the example above, making one right choice could get you out of your slide and back into a upward climb. I know it's only been a 3 day climb but, it's been a great 3 days enough to forget about the last month.

For some reason i couldn't get Poker Office's HH to convert with this site's converter. I didn't do a search on this problem was hoping someone who reads this my give a link or atleast give some info on this.
05-16-2007, 08:51 AM
drtofu66

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobler

Because of this hand

Poker Stars
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.10/$0.25
9 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (9 players) Hero is MP3 with K :club: K :diamond:
UTG calls, 2 folds, MP2 calls, Hero raises to $1.5, CO folds, Button calls, 2 folds, UTG raises to $6.5, MP2 calls, Hero folds, Button folds.

Flop: T :heart: A :heart: 7 :club: ($16.35, 2 players)
UTG checks, MP2 bets $2, UTG raises all-in $10.8, MP2 calls all-in $7.3.
Uncalled bets: $1.5 returned to UTG.

Turn: 7 :spade: ($34.95, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $34.95)

River: J :diamond: ($34.95, 0 player + 2 all-in - Main pot: $34.95)

Results:
Final pot: $34.95
UTG showed Ac Ad
MP2 mucks Tc As

I've played 500 plus hands with UTG, his preflop raise is a 3.5. Between my notes and my hud he only raised, quick math was between 15 and 20 times, nothing in my notes on him, said anything about reraising. So I could only put him on one hand AA. Some of you might think I'm crazy folding K's on a 25 NL. But again between my notes and hud I felt I had no choice but to fold and move on to the next hand.

This is what HUD's are for, IMHO. I definitely lay down queens in that spot (and I'd hope I'd have the convviction to lay down kings, too. I haven't faced an UTG limp/reraise holding kings as far as I can recall) and with 500 hands on a 3.5% PFR'er, a limp/reraise screams AA-- especially if his VPIP is < 20%.

Nicely done.
05-16-2007, 10:21 AM
Chopper

i dont know that i agree with that fold. it is nice, dont get me wrong, but at this level, i still think its -EV, as a blanket generality...which i guess this wasnt.

i can tell you, though, that the downswings happen, and they come back eventually, too. last night i ran 23/10/1.75 and still lost $18 over 220 hands. i got the cards, the fish were biting, but i was getting coolered post flop liike nobody's business.

i had this happen. and dont say its a nitty fold, i didnt close the action, the villain acting behind me was deepish, too. and look at that texture in the face of that aggression. any flush does this, a fourflush may draw here, and a set is in there, too. if the board pairs a set to a boat, i get counterfeited as well, and the odds are one of these turkeys has a heart in his hand. so i dropped it...and then pulled out some hair. HU i make the push, too, but with multiple interest, its an easy fold, to me.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (7 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Button ($17.40)
SB ($12.15)
Hero ($25.50)
UTG ($17.55)
MP1 ($4.50)
MP2 ($29.20)
CO ($25)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 fold, CO calls $0.25, 1 fold, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: ($1.25) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (5 players)
SB bets $0.5, Hero raises to $1.75, UTG calls $1.75, MP1 raises to $4.25, CO folds, SB folds, Hero folds, UTG calls $2.50.

Turn: ($12) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players)

River: ($12) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)

Final Pot: $12

several situations like that hit last night. where you have a hand you want to play aggressively to protect, and you run up against something advertising itself as stronger. do you make the crying call? sure, if you need proof you are beat. imo, you are better off to wait until your variance turns back positive again. then, slam those donkeys.
05-16-2007, 02:23 PM
pokerroomace

you should have been betting more aggressively. you're flop bet is a bad bet. you should have bet $2+. turn and river are ok.

i think you're problem is that you're not charging players enough to draw and suck out on you.

if you bet pot on the flop and turn you probably take this pot down and win the hand.