Intersting 2p2 hand posted

I just thought i'd post this guys hand cuz it's relatively interesting, here's the link.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...rt=1&vc=1&nt=4

Heres the deal. I have a lag image, and I have been 3betting more than anyone else at the table. The villain, preposterous, plays NL2000 at night it seems, and NL600 or so during the day. He plays really solidly at NL2000, almost nittish, but at NL600 is relatively wild and pretty aggressive, most likely the second most aggressive player at the table at this point behind me. He is on multiple tables with me as well.

Poker Stars - No Limit Hold'em Cash Game - $3/$6 Blinds - 6 Players - (LegoPoker HH Converter)

SB: $775.90
Hero (BB): $597
UTG: $830
MP: $725.05
CO: $631.20
BTN: $708

Preflop: Hero is dealt 8 8 (6 Players)
UTG raises to $18, 2 folds, BTN calls $18, SB calls $15, Hero raises to $87, UTG calls $69, 2 folds

Flop: ($210) 5 Q 6 (2 Players)
Hero bets $136, UTG raises all-in to $743

OP claims that this is a call, it brings up some interesting concepts that really apply more to very short handed, HU, and wild aggro three betting.

Op says that pre he thinks that villains range consists of mostly bad hand? why? Because he can't let two overcalls behind him. Whether or not i agree with this isn't very important (I actually think OP should three bet less so he can be sure of this read, a move i do a lot).

On the flop because his range consists of a lot of air hands he feels like this is a call, and i think it probably is, but am not quite sure, its definetely interesting at the least.

This hand reminds me of when i was playing sauce HU and sauce was pretty much just experimenting a lot with his play. At one point he was trying to three bet oop a lot and cbet pretty much every flop.
The adjustment i quickly picked up on is that sauce is hitting the flop only a third of the time, so i can shove a lot of flops with just air. Which i started doing, something sauce picked up on, but really couldnt do anything but stop three betting oop and cbetting.
At one point I raised pre and sauce three bet me and i called with Q9ss, flop came J83 two spades, he bet and i shoved. He thought about it for awhile and ended up calling with A3 and i won as a favorite.
Note that the reason he ended up calling here wasn't because he had bottom pair, it was because if i had overcards that he most likely had an out of mine, which makes him much more than a 75% fav against overcards.

Idk this was kind of a rant seemed cool so i posted it.

No need to go too deep here. I agree that overcalling possiblity reduces likely hood of him having TT+. I think he has a combo draw or set, it's not rocket science for a 1/2 decent aggro to play them both the same. The very fact that we consider calling with 88 make it a reasonable play even though it's tempting to s/p set here vs RR.

If OP is 3-betting VERY light (vs UTG raise + 2 callers OOP lol) , like JT or AXs or some crap then pushing the flop doesn't really hurt villian since OP is not likely to bluff off his stack, right?

You have an interesting point zenbitz, i dont know why this guy assumes this is with air and most likely unless the guy is spewy this wouldn't be with air.
Opp may put OP on a squeeze range in which he does this with air, but is it so unreasonable he calls with 66/55? no, it's pretty standard.
+ this isn't a flop i think villain is looking to push on versus villain's range. I think he may just be being result oriented.

I actually dont understand why villain cant conceivably call with AA or KK here preflop...

it messes up gregs hand reading and gets him to go broke with 88 in the hand posted

it also makes it so that his stack is approximately equal to a potsized bet which he is putting in on any flop....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

I actually dont understand why villain cant conceivably call with AA or KK here preflop...

it messes up gregs hand reading and gets him to go broke with 88 in the hand posted

it also makes it so that his stack is approximately equal to a potsized bet which he is putting in on any flop....

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This is why i suggested he should raise less pre, which is what i like to do when i sandwich to give away more info.

I mean its not like we have to deny villain odds with a underpair if we have weak holdings like this so much.

Okay, now this guy is saying that opp is going to shove his entire range post. Is it just me or is this guy being retarded? I know he's a winner at 600nl but im pretty sure the MSNL community thinks he's station.

I dont think this would be that bad of a call tbh. It's a lot like that durrr vs someone HSNL hand that came out on 2+2 a while ago. Basically there's lots of metagame advantages to calling here and I do think we get shown AK a lot.

Well, in no point in his post does he ever mention meta game but it is something we need to take into consideration.
Here I think it's not that important because the only thing that would change is opp may value shove 99-JJ and Qx here.

Does anyone agree that a good player would shove all his pre range? and if you don't, then when do you shove?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by IowaSkinsFan

Well, in no point in his post does he ever mention meta game but it is something we need to take into consideration.
Here I think it's not that important because the only thing that would change is opp may value shove 99-JJ and Qx here.

Does anyone agree that a good player would shove all his pre range? and if you don't, then when do you shove?

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He also has to cut down on his aggression and bluffs, which allow the OP to take control of the table again.