flopped TPTK facing aggression

Villian is 27/3.7/1 over ~50 hands.



EverestPoker Game #1404828298: Table Doha-18 - $0.25/$0.50 - No Limit Hold'em - 20:54:15 - 2007/04/16
Seat 1: mao80 ($41.93)
Seat 2: Mewn ($58.81)
Seat 4: XTR1000 ($61.60)
Seat 5: chito50 ($59.60)
Seat 6: valetudo ($39.77)
Mewn posts the small blind of $0.25
XTR1000 posts the big blind of $0.50
The button is in seat #1
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to XTR1000[:Kc: :Ad:]
chito50 calls $0.50
valetudo raises to $1.25
mao80 folds
Mewn folds
XTR1000 raises to $4.50
chito50 folds
valetudo calls $3.25
*** FLOP *** [:Qs: :Kd: :3s:]
XTR1000 bets $7.50
valetudo raises to $15.00

Fold. At best you're hoping for a split pot.

Ya, easy fold.

...nits...
i put in it 75% of the time unless i have a read

definite fold

I never fold in this spot. Guess I have some things to work on.

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Originally Posted by bigspenda73

I never fold in this spot. Guess I have some things to work on.

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Me too. I doubt I would fold but given how passive he looks I think I should try harder.

I would never fold in this spot. Id call and Re-evaluate...

on a side not- c-luvin if you read this, was this the post which started ur angry nit-rant. cause i can see that happening...

lol i can answer that for C-luv, yes it is.

And i'm not folding here. I'm pushing, and will probably get calls from weaker hands to.

I really don't understand the fold.
What are we affraid of; QQ, KK, 33, QK?

KK is unlikely as we hold a K, 33 and QQ could be and KQ would be a weird call preflop.

Aren't draws as much of opps range as made hands?
QJ, any FD. I'd call and reevaluate the turn.
(hoping to see a check in front on a blank card. Otherwise the money is probably going in, so maybe putting it in on the flop is just as good)

those who won´t fold this: what hands do u expect to raise us here? villians flop AF is near to 1, i dont think he´ll raise me here with something like AQ or AJss. He was playing tight that night running at less than 4 pfr, he simply doesnt raise many hands we beat here preflop.

i'd call

Do you guys seriously think he called preflop with a drawing hand? The only drawing hand I reasonably put him on is AKs which we are still behind or at best splitting. Do you think JJ does this?

I don't understand. What do the people advocating a call put him on and why?

I'm with you Galapagos. I can't see what you beat here. His figures look super passive, so even the flat call of the re-raise and the min-raise I probably interpret as strength. I have seen passives do this with QQ+ and even AA on occassion. Does he seriously get here with KJ or worse?

The stats are of 50 hands, so I wouldnt count on them heavily tbh. 1 indeed is low and could advocate a fold. Just don't fold just because of that.
On the other side, I only just checked stack sizes and yes, a preflop call with any drawing hand is unlikely and so indeed I think you're beat here about always.

(I would'nt count on every opponent on this level knowing the implied odds needed to call though and even less everyone always playing by them.
I play at 25NL and 50NL, and tbh, I don't really know them.
Sethunting is about 15x, but sc's? can anyone tell me them plz)

So yes fold ... (and I have a long way to go)

Hmm, with $12 already invested in this spot and villain's stack at $27, I can't see folding here, not to say folding isn't correct. His line is extremely strange, putting him on the following hands. very passively played QQ for the set hence the min-raise on the flop, KQ is a possibility but why not Push the flop against HERO's aggressive betting and with the possiblity of flush killing his action OR imho his line really screams to me, Kx of spades!! (Yes I know only 2 hands possibly- KJ or AK)

I am curious to know what action HERO took and if the villain's cards were revealed??

with villian being short i thought about pushing, but i seriously couldnt figure out enough bad hands in his range to make a call/push profitable.hero folded, villian mucked his cards, so we´ll never really know. later that night he refused to 3bet JJ and AK, so i´m fine with my fold.

villain shows up with AA here some of the time.

Ok here we go, responding to all you nitty critics!

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villians flop AF is near to 1

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The sampel is pretty small, don't look too much into AF at that point.

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i seriously couldnt figure out enough bad hands in his range to make a call/push profitable

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I think the villians range consists of more K's then just AK. I see a lot of these donks who have tight raising stats over a small sample, but then i see them showdown raising 68o or something like that. KJ, KT, and K9 are in his range here i think. The fact that you reraised doesn't slim his range down at all either, because his VPIP is big and he's obviously not a good player. I could see AQ doing this to. I'm sure there is other obscure stuff in his range to.

Also, the pot is pretty big and there isn't much left behind.

I think you guys are looking too much into stats that are possibly inaccurate at this point.

It has nothing to do with his AF. It has to do with a 4% raiser (over a small sample I know, but pre-flop stats are much better than post-flop @ 50 hands) raising a limper in EP and then calling a re-raise. This is almost never KJ/KT/K9. At 50NL this screams JJ+/AK. Then villain minraises a c-bet from a re-raiser. How could this be AQ/KJ/KT when hero is repping AK at worst? And there's no way it's a bluff. I don't think twice about this fold.

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Originally Posted by zook

It has nothing to do with his AF.

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A lot of people are mentioning it, though. I agree with you, AF has very little do with it.

I can't really argue with the rest of your post because we just have different opinions of his preflop range.

I think if flop comes w/out the Q we can get it in here. If he was going to overplay <TPTK then he wouldn't min/raise flop. Ditto a draw.

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Originally Posted by minSim

...Sethunting is about 15x, but sc's? can anyone tell me them plz...

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(implied odds)

I hope someone is willing to comment on that.
Especially in 3bet pots.

I think you need more implied odds with SC than pps. So if 15x set hunting, 20x SC.
If you are gabezor and play post flop like Zeus himself, then you can go down to 10x for anything.