three barrel on a monotone board...

Villian is passive and nitty over 50 hands. He's showndown once i think.
What do you think?

PokerStars Game #9214874569: Hold'em No Limit ($1/$2) - 2007/04/02 - 12:49:11 (ET)
Table 'Gordonia II' 6-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: jdiggler111 ($116.70 in chips)
Seat 2: Flummie ($102.25 in chips)
Seat 3: redgrape ($197 in chips)
Seat 4: mrpsychos ($182 in chips)
Seat 6: Rim-K ($202.75 in chips)
menexus will be allowed to play after the button
Rim-K: posts small blind $1
jdiggler111: posts big blind $2
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to redgrape [3h 4h]
Flummie: calls $2
redgrape: raises $8 to $10
mrpsychos: calls $10
Rim-K: folds
jdiggler111: folds
Flummie: folds
*** FLOP *** [8d 2d Ad]
redgrape: bets $14
mrpsychos: calls $14
*** TURN *** [8d 2d Ad] [Js]
redgrape: bets $35
mrpsychos: calls $35
*** RIVER *** [8d 2d Ad Js] [3c]
redgrape: bets $138 and is all-in

Generally, if I can't fold a nit by the turn I give up on the river.

If he's super duper passive no.
If he's passive as in >1 AF then i like it.

LOL- this is absolutely terrible, I probably dont even bet the flop

PF I dont like a ton, even 5 handed. I think this is fine, but that could just be me trying to justify plays I make every once in awhile. On the flop we can put him on a pretty wide range, something like a PP, an ace or an 8 [maybe], a big diamond and a small chance of a set or something like that. On the turn when they call again [and dont raise] we can take out most of the PPs and also the sets or stronger hands and basically are left with an ace or a big diamond but probably leaning towards something like AQ, but maybe even a pair+big diamond. Anyways, on the river the diamond blanks and we get a pretty boring card. A nitty player is not going to be calling 3 barrels with a one pair sort of hand very often at all and while we made a pair, we still could be behidn some of those flush draws so folding them isnt bad either, it also prevents them from bluffing. Anyways, in short, I dont think this is bad at all and these are sorts of boards that I think are good for this. Personally, I rather do this against opponents that I have solid stats for, but again, I think this is good.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

LOL- this is absolutely terrible, I probably dont even bet the flop

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What do you disagree with in my thinking as Im pretty sure its going to be along the same lines of what the OPs reasoning was. Do you disagree with the range or just the fact that you dont think he will fold?

If he's bad then this is fine since he shows up with the K or Q of diamonds a decent amount.

This seems to be a monster tough in my experience over the last little while (like QdJd or something)...

edit : also, usually nits sitting with 50bb's or less don't fold after commiting a decent part of their stack if they have any type of hand.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Genitruc

edit : also, usually nits sitting with 50bb's or less don't fold after commiting a decent part of their stack if they have any type of hand.

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The effective stack here is almsot 100 BBs

I think its bad because a nit cold called your raise, then proceeded to call a bet on one of the most scary/drawy boards imaginable. Nits do all kinds of shit like cold call bets on these kind of boards with sets or AKd or AQd. There is just no reason to invest so much money with no pair no draw. His hand isnt well defined- I mean sure, you probably move him off of a weak ace and the stiff K or Q of diamonds by betting ur whole stack, but any time when hes prepared to go all the way (which is often) you lose ur whole stack with no pair no draw 4 high. You just cant do that against a tight player on this board with an undefined hand, its just spew, pure and simple.

Andy- maybe ur analysis is correct if our opponent is a mindless robot who will progressively fold better hands with each street we bluff at and never slowplays, checkraises, or decides to stack off with one pair. Sadly, he is capable of all of these things, and this board hits his range pretty godamn hard, and we have 0 outs. This is soooo important, this play becomes sooo much better if we have even a gutshot straight draw on the flop that is to the nuts. Here we are just shoveling chips into the pot because OMG I'm the preflop raiser and I can make portions of his hand range fold on each street by betting a lot. I honestly donno if I even bet flop here with 34hh, let alone turn or river.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

This is soooo important, this play becomes sooo much better if we have even a gutshot straight draw on the flop that is to the nuts.

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I do have a gutshot but it's not clean.

Quote:

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Here we are just shoveling chips into the pot because OMG I'm the preflop raiser and I can make portions of his hand range fold on each street by betting a lot. I honestly donno if I even bet flop here with 34hh, let alone turn or river.

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I think this is a very good point. It's just really pointless to try something borderline when you don't have outs. Taylor Caby said in one of his cardrunners videos that you have to feel 75% confident that you are going to get a guy off a hand if you are going to bluff with nothing. Obviously, you only need 50%, but the point is this isn't one of those situations.

To say this is absolutely terrible though, Sauce, is just a ridiculous and pointless statement.

He's just trying to tell you not to do it.

I not that the 3 on the river means you are beating busted draws anyway.
Either he
a) has a has a flush
b) has a busted draw that folds river
c) has a hand < flush, but doesn't think you flopped one and is willing to call down unless a 4th diamond hits.

If the river was a blank instead of a 3/4 then at least you could fold out (b). The only reason to bet this river is if you think he will bet his busted draw if you check to him.

I just don't see him calling the turn and folding the utterly blank river with anything better than K-high.

Ok, let me rephrase that: I literally never, ever, ever do this against anyone ever, ever.

massimo- just think of two possible lines for this hand:

1) you raise a limper with 34hh get cold called by a nit, flop comes Ad 8d 2d you check fold and lose 1/20th of your stack.

2) you triple barrel the flop turn and river- representing... a flopped flush I guess (which hes gonna have trouble believing as you are the PFR and the Ad flopped), maybe a set (22, 88, AA are all in your range- would you have c/pushed turn with a set-idk) and you get called on 2 streets by nit and push the river.

I dont understand how this line could possibly be more +ev than checking the flop. If we check the flop a nit frequently is checking behind a mediocre/whiffed hand and we get a free draw at our gutshot + the chance to muck a hand that may be drawing to 0 outs for cheap.

I must be totally missing something about poker if this isnt just plain spew. Again, I'm running terrible and being bitter lately so maybe I'm just seeing this in the most negative light possible, but I dont think so.

Sauce let's just play HU for rolls.

One of us is bound to swing up!

Btw, regarding the OP hand, this isn't a comment I can justify rationally, but I used to do this kind of stuff a LOT and I was always amazed at the number of folds I got on the river. Also, my image would be so terrible after doing this that I got paid off with a vengeance by the aware regs...

Def a spew in a bubble though.