Do you know the SSS (Short Stack Strategy)?

Hello,

just a question: In germany there is a very popular tactic to grind on no limit games. The Short Stack Strategy. (SSS). In short you sit down at the table with a short stack – around ¼ of the maximum allowed. Than you wait for a good hand and...PUSH. The aim is to go all in on the flop.

Well, I ask you because I think it´s quite easy to handle this guys. You can identify them after a few rounds via their very low VPIP. So, if they bet into you (mostly 4 times the blinds + 1 bb for every caller go away). If you sit in front of them in late position, simply raise – you will get the blinds in most cases, regardless what they have. If you got a reraise  Fold.

So simple, try it.

Regards !

How can you fold to a reraise from a short stack?
And since when is it a good idea to reraise people with tiny VPIPs?

good hand, push. got it.

Lolofirstpostfigureitalloutements

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

How can you fold to a reraise from a short stack?

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ok- depends on the stack he has left. but if he has 2-3 times the pot you can get cleary of your hand. cause they only will reraise if the have a hand better than AQs or QQ .

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

And since when is it a good idea to reraise people with tiny VPIPs?

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i didn´t write this?! i wrote "late position, simply raise – you will get the blinds in most case" because they will only reraise with absolut power hands.

I love when people sit down in cash games with the tiny stack cause i know i will be stacking them shortly. You can push them around so easily because esentially they are playing for their stack evertime and eventually they will get annoyed with you stealing from them so consistently that they will push a marginal hand and i proceed to stack them without risking what I would have to risk to stack another player. It's a great theory to say you'll wait for the really good hands like AQ or better but AQ and even AK are good hands to get your money in preflop with but when you have 3 or 4 callers because your all in is a standard raise they're not so good, and if your sitting there waiting for QQ, KK, AA you'll be waiting a while and your small stack that you began with will be blinded off. When people realise what your doing which really isn't hard you wont get any action on the hands you want to get action on.Honestly its a really bad mistake to sit down at a cash game with the min buy in and an even bigger one to play like a rock when you do.

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Originally Posted by meeloche

Honestly its a really bad mistake to sit down at a cash game with the min buy in and an even bigger one to play like a rock when you do.

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I'm sorry, but both of these statements are patently false. Playing short-stacked can be very profitable, even at high stakes, and if you're going to play short-stacked, you MUST play like a rock. You're right that observant players might catch on and not give you any action, but most players don't and play very poorly against short-stacks. Usually they decide to gamboool with them b/c it's "only" 20bb.

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and if you're going to play short-stacked, you MUST play like a rock

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I can see your reasoning behind this but i still think your losing lots of value if your playing with such a short stack. For example if you've got the nuts the max value you can get out of the hand is the min buy in that you put in but the villain might be prepared to pay more to see sd with the hand that he has but the pot is caped because you're all in. Your also going to be pot committed a lot easier which I dont really like. I also dont like all the restrictions that you have to put on yourself to give yourself a chance with a short stack that might my personality though.
Your talking abour fr when you say that you can make the ss work right?
Cause i would have to think at 6 max it would be an even worse idea.

perhaps this German strategy should locate a better name than SSS?

If you're playing in low stakes games that you're properly bankrolled for, then short-stacking is a bad idea. And yeah, it's definitely restrictive, boring and does not improve your post-flop game. But if you're playing above your ability or bankroll, short-stacking is a good idea (if you're disciplined).

As for FR vs. 6-max, I think SS can be profitable at either. At FR the blinds come around less often but players are generally nittier. At 6-max the blinds will eat into your profit, but you'll probably get called more often.

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Originally Posted by Irisheyes

And since when is it a good idea to reraise people with tiny VPIPs?

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i didn´t write this?! i wrote "late position, simply raise – you will get the blinds in most case" because they will only reraise with absolut power hands.[/quote]

Oh sorry I misunderstood.

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Originally Posted by drmcboy

perhaps this German strategy should locate a better name than SSS?

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v good.

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Originally Posted by drmcboy

perhaps this German strategy should locate a better name than SSS?

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lolololol. nh sir.


it´s actually not a german, but the average european donkey strat, invented by some french guys.

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Originally Posted by Bonushure

Hello,

just a question: In germany there is a very popular tactic to grind on no limit games. The Short Stack Strategy. (SSS). In short you sit down at the table with a short stack – around ¼ of the maximum allowed. Than you wait for a good hand and...PUSH. The aim is to go all in on the flop.

Well, I ask you because I think it´s quite easy to handle this guys. You can identify them after a few rounds via their very low VPIP. So, if they bet into you (mostly 4 times the blinds + 1 bb for every caller go away). If you sit in front of them in late position, simply raise – you will get the blinds in most cases, regardless what they have. If you got a reraise  Fold.

So simple, try it.

Regards !

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youre all fucking fish, pardon my french.
I look forward to all the short stack donks from party 25nl moving up and trying to buy in full because theyre bankrolls will be donated to me.
If you cant buy in full at small stakes you shouldnt be playing poker.

I cant even be bother to dignify my position with $$$$$/per hour stats, but if you short stack below 200nl then you should just quit poker.

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Originally Posted by drmcboy

perhaps this German strategy should locate a better name than SSS?

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lol. Truely awesome sir.

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perhaps this German strategy should locate a better name than SSS?

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man im slow, i just got it
classic lol

You're all wrong. The key to poker is never folding the ace of spades. Ive won with it three times in a row now it never fails!

Serious Note:
Buy in for 1/5th the buy in, find a table where people have a big preflop raising range, especially with people directly to your right.

Get a good hand and push.

Hi again,

thank you for discussing a little controvers.
Well, i think this strategy works .(btw. this SSS joke is really old:-)

The Reason ist: The SSS is propagate by the biggest german affiliate side. thousands of players are doing the SSS, generating rake only for this affiliate (Yes they participate). You can believe me, this is a big business for the affiliate. And i don´t think that they will tell there members bullshit to get broke. maybe its not the best strategy to win, but it will be ev+.

cant be making much rale when the max pot size is $10 and only happen like 5 hands per 100 etc etc...

I can tell you where playing short stacked has helped me tremendously. When I was still a noob and learning to play pre-flop, playing short stacked forced me to play more correctly. At the same time, when I lost my stack, I still kept a decent bankroll.

There once was an affiliate spammer
Who stuck a link in his signature banner
The link didn't fly
And I'll tell you why
Xianti slammed down the banhammer

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c2...ammer-1024.jpg

Shortstacking rulz... I've made thousands shortstacking 6 max 1-2 / 2-4 tables. Find a very aggressive table, high avg pot with most action, double up and move on. (I stick around if the game is really juicy). But I use this percepted idea that, "a short stack HAS to play tight" against the big stacks that try to bully... You'll find me making big all-in resteals pretty often, and pushing on flush draws against a tight opp... I don't play very tight, but I still find that short stacking is a great money making strategy for me. It also give you a little protection from suckouts and big bluffs. I may not be a great deep NL player, but I can short stack my ass off...

LOL. Thread makes me laugh.

OP says effectively: "There's an uber-tight strategy popular in Germany where you push top hands with a short stack and fold all others.
If you find such a person you can sit to their right and raise their blind every time knowing they'll fold 95% and push the times you're behind."

Rather than saying "Yes. This is a very basic start in taking advantage of an exploitable style" we get a thread discussing whether the style is worthwhile or not...

OP didn't say "Try this SSS" he said "Try this counter-CSS strategy".

Our answer: Yes, it works, good idea. But actually a bit basic. Have you tried the Beginner's forum?

End of thread.

FFS

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Originally Posted by miffed2001

I cant even be bother to dignify my position with $$$$$/per hour stats, but if you short stack below 200nl then you should just move up and donate all your monies to me.

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FYP.

Dear Shorties,

I'm not a very good poker player, but when you play this strategy, I can play pretty much flawlessly against you.

Ty gg
Mark

So much of this on Party lately. Thanks to all the shorties that regularly contribute to my roll.

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Originally Posted by drmcboy

perhaps this German strategy should locate a better name than SSS?

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especially true since there is a current neo-nazi skinhead organization called SSS.

I am always mad at these shorties who just don't know how to play poker. They buy in 20bb and then they wait for aces. You find QQ or JJ or TT and of course you are gonna call them because they have so little money in front of them. I find like I am in most cases up against AA.

Why would these jerks buy in 20bb and wait for aces? It is so sick.

i wonder how long until sites ban less than 50bbs buyins.

:shipit:

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Originally Posted by Miffed22001

i wonder how long until sites ban less than 50bbs buyins.

:shipit:

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never

idk, I switched from playing 6max $10NL on Full Tilt to buying into the $25NL with $10. I found the $10 tables so rocky they were painful to play. Short stacking the $25s has proved much more profitable, but maybe this is site-specific.

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Originally Posted by biondino

Dear Shorties,

I'm not a very good poker player, but when you play this strategy, I can play pretty much flawlessly against you.

Ty gg
Mark

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This is probably true... I like to target the over aggressive players, so playing 1/2 or 2/4, by the time they realize they're behind, it's after I've check raised their c-bet and I've made a decent amount (in comparison to my short stack) It's just sickening how many people automatically raise the button, or target my blinds just cause I'm short, especially in a six max game.

SSS works really well 4 me.....
12 tables and you can live from the guys,who try to bully you around with their big stack...believing they know what they are doing....

and I´m playing "Please dont hurt me I´m a fish;-)"
double up and byebye to the next table.....

Well, playing short-stacked is by no means a german strategy :-) Even Sklansky wrote a chapter about it. While playing deep-stacked is probably more profitable for a good player, the SSS lets beginners avoid post-flop play. AFAIK playing short stacked indeed has +ev, but you won't improve your skills that way (since this style is pretty bot-like).

Knowing it certainly is not a disadvantage for deep-stacked players, because it gives you some more tells :)

If you can't play against a bully, adjust your game, not your stack.

those of you who can regularly beat shorties aren't playing agasint good shorties. i've spent a shitload of time playing short, have many holes in that game, yet you couldn't beat me. the structural adavantage makes it so that if a shortie is good enough, he cant be beaten by deep stacks.

however, this doesn't mean the shortie is making money. when shortin in a game not full of super donkeys, i speculate that a shortie must do a lot of bluffing since the blinds are much bigger relative to his potential earn when doubling up. or maybe instead of bluffing, many very thin value bets. i honestly do not know.

nonetheless, this means that a profitable shortie is actually very good at hand reading, at least pre and flop streets. i never got too good at this since it's qutie difficult, as opposed to fourth and fifth street reads. contrary to popular opinion, the time i spent playing short helped my deep game due to the fact that i saw many more opponents hole cards. got to see the types of things they'd play pre and flop.

a lot of 'winning' shorties are really just running good. especially at sixmax. the blinds and pre raises when running dry simply just annihilate you.

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Originally Posted by wufwugy

a lot of 'winning' shorties are really just running good. especially at sixmax. the blinds and pre raises when running dry simply just annihilate you.

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What proof do you have for this? Did you try it for at least 100k hands? Myself, I've played 64k hands at $1/$2 FR using a sss and am up $4000. However, I am currently trying to switch to 6max and am having awful results there, partly because I'm running terrible, partly because nobody respects my steals/cbets and everyone runs over my blinds.

If anyone is interested in exchanging sss experiences , please PM me. Maybe together we can come up with a good anti-6maxloonies system. :D

6max blinds come round too quickly....

Granted, but since you don't play that many hands in early position in 9-max anyway (usually 99+, AQ+), I feel the net effect shouldn't theoretically be that large.

However, 6-maxers do steal a lot more than 9-maxers. So basically the problem isn't so much that the blinds come along more often, but that you need to adjust to the wider stealing ranges. Ed Miller says pretty much the same here: http://www.notedpokerauthority.com/q...-overview.html.

Currently, I'm trying out a defense strategy based on the raiser's steal%. If they steal 40% of the time, I will go allin with the top 40% of my hands in the hope that the free money I gain from their folds outweighs the -EV from the times they call. First results are promising.

It's still rudimentary though and it only helps if you've got enough info on an opponent, so if anyone has a better blind defense system I'm all ears. :)