QQ under fire in 4bet pot

Did I take this to far or not far enough or just far enough? Opponent is a 50/20 playa.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.25 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($27.50)
SB ($35.40)
BB ($36.30)
UTG ($16.80)
MP ($35.15)
CO ($33.20)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
UTG calls $0.25, MP raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero raises to $3.25, 2 folds, UTG folds, MP raises to $5.75, Hero calls $2.50.

Flop: ($12.10) 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 7http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, 6http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
MP bets $4, Hero calls $4.

Turn: ($20.10) 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players)
MP bets $25.4 (All-In), Hero folds.

Final Pot: $45.50

I'm just getting used to 6 max, so take my advice for what it's worth...

but you've got a bet... a raise, you reraise, and then you get reraised... that's three raises in a pot. I don't mind calling to set here, as the price was nearing right... But you're against Aces or Kings here, and your opponent is showing no fear of that flop (pretty hard to put you on a mid pair set.)

Fold... if that's not aces, I don't know what it could be. Your ONLY chance to win this pot is to re-pop him on the flop and snap off a weak C-bet.... but I'm so certain you're beat here, it hurts.

I will need reads (e.g. PF 3-bet range and postflop aggro factor -- bluffing with missed AK?) to call this. And I lean towards folding flop. I play any pair except AA for set value in a re-reraised pot.

I get it all in preflop probably

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sauce123

I get it all in preflop probably

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really? isn't this only getting called by better hands (AA/KK)? Especially after villains 4-bet us.

Villain runs 50/20- I make the sometimes dubious assumption that he slowplays his big hands and treats AJ+ as the nuts or considers WPT 12 BB deep advice as gospel and trys to "put us to the test" with 77. Basically if I have the third best hand in poker vs a villain like this- specially QQ which frequently is in a tough spot postflop, then ship my chippies over to donkface with the intention of getting them back soon. Sauce.

Heh, in my experience you're often ahead here preflop. If a preflop loose player 4bet-minraises you like this, it's often a "fuck you" thing. I remember a hand that went identical to this preflop, and it ended up me winning vs J4o who made top pair. That being said, I fold the turn too.. if he really missed hard, he wouldn't have continued to show strength. I don't think he has AA, but set/straight/2p.. maybe something like 89 but probably not, atleast not enough to call.

Btw he could've also bet under half pot on turn, and then again shove under half pot on river.. that'd have sucked for you lol.. might've suckered you into calling cuz of odds all the way.

im most likely putting it in preflop vs a donk villain w/ stats like that. 4-bets at $25nl and i assume $50nl usually are nothing less than KK (w/ an occaisional 4-bet push from an aggro AK). Against someone w/ more reasonable TAgg stats i think i can find a fold to his 4-bet but not here. As played i play it exactly the same.

Not to threadjack...

But what are the VPIP/PFR numbers you'd consider Tag, Lag, weak-tight, etc.

I'm just making the transition to Short handed play after needing some time off from SNGs, and I haven't fully adjusted my perception of these numbers to the looser and more aggro 6 max format.

Personally.. if VPIP is <20 I'm branding someone as nitty, some standard TAG stats are like 24/19-ish.. LAGs are simply people who aggressively play a lot of hands (like 32/21.. 60/40 would be LAG too but more maniac than anything). In bad games, don't forget the loose passives, lotsa people with like 60/1 or 45/4. The confusing part about the terminology is that it talks about PREFLOP tendencies but it also infers how people play postflop, which is kinda hazy in practice. And weak/tight refers to postflop, people who fold everytime they miss the flop and basically just wait to make a hand.

I donno I would define a 17/15 as a tag. I run like 24/20, isn't that like slag or somethin I donno.

Maybe it depends on your games too? I play 50NL prima atm and there's plenty of players with bad stats (loose) so if someone's VPIP is <20 he is too nitty because it is profitable to play more hands vs tables like this. Make sense?..

yea, in my 400nl games I am almost always the loosest player at the table. Stars is soooo annoying. At non-peak times there is like ALWAYS one 12/10 one 14/12, 1 17/15, one 20/18 and me.

Then the 3betting every hand begins. kjsfksjdfhsdjkf.

.. how can you make money on tables like that??

postflop

their hand ranges are usually very well defined compared to mine, also this is a worst case scenario, you dont make very much when games get that nitty