CodeRed trying to lag it up...

Hand 1: This is Hero's first hand at the table and feels he played it pretty bad. He is trying to become an aggro baller and over the past few months has been a degen nit and wants to kill himself everyday. Effective Stack is $100, Villain is 27/20.

Hero holds :Td: :8c: on Button

Action folds to Hero who raises to $3.50 and SB calls, BB folds.

Flop is :Ad: :Ac: :8s: pot: $8

Villain leads $4, Hero calls, planning to raise any turn...

Turn: :9s: Pot: $16

Villain leads $10, Hero raises to $46....


Hand 2: Effective Stack is $100 and Hero just sat down at table. PT has Hero as nitty 16/12 if anyone is paying attention.


Hero holds :Qh: :Th: in BB.

Loose passive 35/4 open limps on button, hero raises to $3 in BB, button calls.

Flop comes: :6d: :9d: :8c: Pot is $6

Hero leads $4, villain raises to $18, Hero shoves to $90...


Hand 3: Effective Stack is $115


Hero holds :Kd: :Qc: on Button

Folds to Hero who raises $3.5
Standard 22/13 tag in BB reraises to $14

Hero makes a pretty atrocious call hoping to push any non ace/king flop
BTW, Hero is notorious to have a nitty 16/12 stats but has found himself playing 40/20 for this session, and pretty aggro given previous hands.

Flop comes :2d: :Ad: :3d: pot is $25
Villain bets $22
Hero pushes for remaining $100....

I think 3 is bad, KQ plays horrible against opps range IMO.

I like 2, but you gotta know opp will fold a pair here sometimes and not call of his stack with A6o...

Id just raise the flop in 1 but im guessing opp wants to take a weak ace to showdown here because ZOMG he has tripsssss!!!!

Low stakes player here, still learning.

Hand 1... If I'm making a play, then it would be re-raising the flop
Trips don't usually bet out on a non scary board esp. when he's expecting a c-bet
from you.
By turn you have to risk too much of your stack to make a move, sure it looks like a strong ace betting out now that the board is getting scary, but he probably isn't folding an ace or better & you're bluffing off your stack in the dark without any real read on his hand, pretty risky.

Hand 2

I don't think a loose passive raises a flop like this, he calls if he's on a draw,
his big re-raise indicates he has a big hand that doesn't want to be drawn out,
he has at least two pair most likely set given pre-flop play. He wants nothing more than to get it all in on flop here imo.
If u were going to make a big semi bluff I would rather call flop then make big bet if any diamond, 7, 10 or jack hit. I don't do this though.

Hand 3 should work enough for it to be +ev & you got alot of outs.
But even AK might call you putting you rightly on a draw.
(obv. preflop call is bad.)

these are all spew imo

Why are we raising QTs in the BB? You've already got the fish isolated.

i dont like the first one, and you could probably pick a better opponent for the 2nd

Here is my question about hand 1: what are we trying to accomplish?

Hand 1: If you want to make a move, just raise the flop and fold to a 3-bet. Shut down to a call. Raising the turn is a limit move. It's just too expensive in NL, IMO.

Hand 2: Either check your option or make a bigger raise. A 35/4 isn't folding for $2 more. Make it $5 or $6. You likely have value against his range, but that's a tough hand OOP. Unless this guy has an abnormally high agression factor (indicating he likes to push opponents off hands postflop), the rest of this hand is spew. Villain is limping in trying to make a hand. Looks like he made one.

Hand 3: To quote Green Plastic: "If you find yourself calling reraises with weak hands in this position, just quit the session." You're getting dragged along by AA, KK, AQ, and AK too often in this situation. I think your push looks like a draw and gets called often, though there are hands you can fold out in this spot, so I don't hate it.

1) just seems bizzare. you are just turning your modest hand into a bluff. I would be a little worried about a high card on river, but otherwise I would assume he has PP<8 and call down

2) cannot... resist... double... belly... buster... must... get... ARRRRRIIIIN!

3) pre-flop terrible, post flop slightly less so. It would be sweet to fold QQ/KK here.

Sorry to say but it looks like some on-the-fly bluffing for the sole purpose of being more aggressive.. problem is these are usually called (when I do this atleast).. in my experience it's not very good to bluff into people who show genuine strength without a read they're excessively doing so.

Hand #1: I think the flop would be a cheaper way to put him to the test. Shut down if called.
Hand #2: I would rather call the flop raise and hope to hit on the turn. Don't these stats say this guy likes to pay you off? Why not get it in if you improve? The Q high straight would be nicely hidden.
Hand #3: Gross. What are you hoping to crush him with holding KQo?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by koolmoe

Hand 1: If you want to make a move, just raise the flop and fold to a 3-bet. Shut down to a call. Raising the turn is a limit move. It's just too expensive in NL, IMO.

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That is what I was thinking. However, my hand has showdown value and I prlly could have just called it down. My raise was solely to see if I can fold the guy on the turn, and definately wasn't for value.


Hand 3: To quote Green Plastic: "If you find yourself calling reraises with weak hands in this position, just quit the session." You're getting dragged along by AA, KK, AQ, and AK too often in this situation. [/quote]

Aye, preflop is atrocious and this is prly the first time i've ever done it in my life, solely to mix it up. Its the postflop push that I like the best.

Heh, look at what happens to a good table image though: Villian is same 35/4 above.

Full Tilt Poker
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50/$1
6 players
Converter

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with :2s :2h
UTG raises to $4, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls, 3 folds.

Flop: :2d :7d :3c ($9.5, 2 players)
UTG bets $10, Hero raises to $39.5, UTG calls.

Turn: :jc ($88.5, 2 players)
UTG checks, Hero is all-in $170.25, UTG calls.

River: :5d ($429, 1 player + 1 all-in - Main pot: $429)

Results:
Hero shows 22 set of twos
Villain shows KK for an awesome call.

Final pot: $429

FWIW, this is the kinda action I would love to have on my sets. Too bad I had to play like a donkey to get this action.

Off topic: If you were to bet/3bet a draw allin, would you rather have it be a flush draw or OESD? Also, any tips on not being a nit and increasing my aggression without being the lagtard i was above?

Hand 1: One thing good lags do is not turn their hand into a bluff. By raising turn here that's exactly what u turn it into and it def has SD value. You should call flop and fold turn here IMO unless villain is a habitual bluffer or grossly overplays small PPs. Bluff raising flop with sayyy 46s is also fine imo but ur hand is waaaay too strong to turn into a bluff.

Hand 2: This is also rly bad. Don't raise preflop here unless villain is super passive (postflop-as in folding mid pair to a Cbet), if u plan to raise pre do it to 5 or 6. As played ur flop lead is good, you should insta fold to this raise OOP. I'm not even gonna start with the many reasons y u should, but for starters villain's range connects hard here (7T, 75, 89, sets, combo draws). This is terrible spew.

Hand 3: Call preflop is pretty bad imo, slightly better if hero is otb and therefore BB should be 3betting significantly lighter, though its still probably a fold vs most tags with these stacks. Flop is good. You can induce a few mistakes here and you have 0 implied odds. A fold isn't terrible either, but I think a push>fold>call.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Off topic: If you were to bet/3bet a draw allin, would you rather have it be a flush draw or OESD?

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Flush draw cuz it has more outs?.. when there's lotsa money left to play with I prefer OESDs though, a lot more deceptive when they hit.

Quote:

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Also, any tips on not being a nit and increasing my aggression without being the lagtard i was above?

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Bluff when people show weakness not when they show strength? :)

Haha a couple tips: I play 27/21ish and have been having success at .50/1 to 2/4 lately. Basically to be a successful lag you have to know waaaay more about what is going on in the hand than your opponent. Don't turn marginal holdings into bluffs for the most part. And rarely, rarely play big pots OOP without incredibly strong holdings. This would be an incredibly long post but basically as a lag you only want to make ur big semibluffs and bluffs when an opponents range is incredibly well defined and weak. For instance in hand 1 his most likely holding is 22-77, also 99-JJ and then Ax. Against many nitty villains at .50/1 a raise on this flop with air is +ev. That being said you are probably slightly ahead of his range on this flop and his range has little to no chance of improving so call this flop. On turn you have to make a read as to whether he is overplaying a small PP or on a bluff or trying to get value from an ace. Without a read along these lines muck turn... raising the turn is complete spew as his range on turnbet contains a huge amount of Ax which is just gonna push and you will feel like an idiot and fold. Sauce.

Hand 1:
If you wanna fold any non A hand that beats your hand I like your play. But I'd like to aks you wether you did this because you had an 8 or wether you would have done this with any2 from time to time. Thing is your hand might have value here although prob. not after villians turn bet.

Hand 2:
Preflop is horrible. so why is this, well first of all you have a reasonable hand that will show a profit here by just seeing a flop. you can take some of Sklansky's thoughts on preflop semibluffing and apply it here. He claims that when you wanna bluff/semibluff pre you wanna do it with the best kinda hand that wouldn't show a profit by calling. Same goes here. you put money in pot knowing that you have ok but not super hand and going to play it OOP, only thing you add is FE. Pls just call and outplay him postflop and take the +EV it is already.

Postflop we talked about and I like. However Gabe has baller point about opponent.

Hand 3:
We talked about this and we agreed that preflop is monster reversed implied odds.

Hand 1: This is kinda spewy, I see too many villains that think their JJ is good because 'he can't have an A, there's already 2 on the board', and he isn't folding if he has an A.

Hand 2: Shoving draws is not good against people who don't fold. If you have seen him fold then this play is +ev, if he doen't then your spewing.

Hand 3: I think you are only folding KK, QQ, JJ here, and only if they don't hold a diamond. Any AK/AQ also sticks around here. This may be bad but I would probably call here and get some info or look to steal on the turn. You may get a good look into how villain will play hands oop in a reraised pot.

Villain here is 16/12, also key to note is I get 3 bet a ton by either someone with position and players in the blinds to my steal attempts.


PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

SB ($98.50)
BB ($147)
UTG ($128.65)
MP ($75.90)
Hero ($105.55)

Preflop: Hero is Button with 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, 5http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $14, 1 fold, Hero calls $10.

Flop: ($29) Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $15, Hero calls $15.

Turn: ($59) 9http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $40, SB folds.

Final Pot: $99

Jager ^^^^
the flop call is really bad, and if u are going to call u should just raise. AA and AK can easily fold top a raise but not with the line u took.

@ Jager

you got Balls... but the bad kinda balls noway I call that flop in reraised with your hands like ever. Tell me a flop that hit his range better..?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Off topic: If you were to bet/3bet a draw allin, would you rather have it be a flush draw or OESD?

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Depends on the board and the opponent, but sometimes you'll have more fold equity with an OESD since the board can be rainbow. FD's seem to get called more often, so I usually like to have at least a combo draw with a FD. I don't generally bet/3-bet 8 or 9 out draws unless I have a read that my opponent is capable of making moves fairly often though, because too often you get called by a set and have so little equity.

Quote:

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Also, any tips on not being a nit and increasing my aggression without being the lagtard i was above?

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Not sure if this applies to you in particular, but as general rules:

1) Be in position
2) Pick opponents with a wide betting/raising range but a tight calling range.
3) Play your big hands the same way. Too often players will be hyperaggressive with draws but bet/call sets and flopped straights and flushes. A big reason to play these draws aggressively is to balance your play with monsters, so disguise your play by playing your big draws and big hands in similar ways.

Quote:

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Not sure if this applies to you in particular, but as general rules:

1) Be in position
2) Pick opponents with a wide betting/raising range but a tight calling range.
3) Play your big hands the same way. Too often players will be hyperaggressive with draws but bet/call sets and flopped straights and flushes. A big reason to play these draws aggressively is to balance your play with monsters, so disguise your play by playing your big draws and big hands in similar ways.

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Thanks, What kinda PT stats are we looking for in #2?

Some other hands:

Hand 1: Villain and I have a history. He called my c/r allin 200 BB deep with an overpair (JJ) + FD vs my set and sucked out, which is how he got his stack. Since then him and I have been in several pots together and my stats on him are 17/10. He has habitually floated me in reraised pots only for me to fire second barrels on turn and he folds.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

CO ($56.35)
Hero ($165)
SB ($421.90)
BB ($100)
UTG ($238)
MP ($127.35)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Khttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif.
3 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $15, 1 fold, Hero calls $11.

Flop: ($31) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif, 8http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $22, Hero calls $22.

Turn: ($75) 2http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $38, SB calls $38.

River: ($151) 3http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif (2 players)
SB bets $91, Hero folds.

Final Pot: $242

Hand 2: Villain is 22/15 and we have no history at this table. He probably has 16/12 stats on me although this session i've been 20/14.

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $1.00 BB (5 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)

Hero ($99.50)
SB ($117.80)
BB ($100)
UTG ($128.70)
MP ($11.60)

Preflop: Hero is Button with Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif, Ahttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif.
2 folds, Hero raises to $4, SB raises to $13, 1 fold, Hero calls $9.

Flop: ($27) Jhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, Thttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...es/diamond.gif, 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/heart.gif (2 players)
SB bets $20, Hero raises to $60, SB raises to $104.8, Hero calls $26.50 (All-In).

Turn: ($218.30) Qhttp://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...miles/club.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

River: ($218.30) 4http://www.flopturnriver.com/phpBB2/...iles/spade.gif (2 players, 1 all-in)

Final Pot: $218.30

My thoughts: Hand 1 I tried Jager's line somewhat but once he called the turn I figured I was FUBARed regardless and was just going to check/behind the river.

In Hand 2, I thought his bet to be too strong and wants me to fold. I thought a 3x raise here would have more strength and completely cutting out any Implied odds he had. Also, I figured if villain did have AK he would have less trouble calling my push than going over the top of me knowing that I'm pot committed and calling regardless.

Hand 1 is meh. Hand 2 I think is really spewy vs this guy who looks like he flopped a big hand. Hand 3 is ok, if you're calling preflop then you're obviously shoving this flop.

whats going on man...

Can't leve you to play all by yourself without you doing wierd stuff.

1: How you got to turn card I don't wanna know. He checks now you either bet 60+ or take a freebee 38 looks superweak.

2: AQs also has reversed implied written all over it. I can see the point in doing this only thing is that when called you have at best 6 outs wich aint bad but not really good either

Jeff, these hands are all bad/spewy. You want to make moves like these into semi built pots with "specific" equity. To me, you're equity is muddled, but you're still trying to blow opponents off.

If you want to lagg it up recklessly for the sake of learning, move down to 50NL or 25NL and tilt the tables. I learned to lagg at much lower stakes than I was rolled for, because it's high variance (higher when you haven't perfected it).

You're not playing a good loose aggressive game in these HH. Frankly, this thread scared the shit out of me, since you're a semi aquaintence of mine who looks marvelous.

For first hand at the table I don't like these. Play a couple orbits to get some reads then these would be better against the right opponent.

If you bluff away 2 stacks before you win one stack with a set you loose (if you only bluff 1 stack you still loose because of rake).

FWIW, starting with the first three hands: Hand 1: Villain called my turn raise and then instapushed the river. Hand 2: villain tanked and then instacalled with 75 of diamonds for a pure nutlashing. I turned the straight but gave him the flush. Hand 3: Villain tanked but then eventually called with AKo, I river flush and gives me the stack for the set of 2s.

The second two, in hand two villain had 89o and I was pretty pissed at someone for something, either his bad call or my play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Thanks, What kinda PT stats are we looking for in #2?

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Would be something like a high aggression factor + high aggression frequency combined with a high fold to [street] bet and a low went to showdown, but I usually use a specific read of having seen a bluff raise (or at least a fold to a threebet postflop).