humongous flop check-raise on dry flop from unknown

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11-11-2006, 02:09 AM
benny999

humongous flop check-raise on dry flop from unknown

This is BB's 2nd hand at the table. first one he posted a blind UTG, so I'm thinking maybe he's gambling/messing around.
Also in that hand, UTG+1 raised and I rerraised UTG+1 and won the pot pf. so maybe he thinks im aggro.

seems like such a bs raise...wtf? fold the flop? I was thinking Ax/bluff/set...with more weight on Ax/bluff.
Then again it's my first time on UB...maybe more ppl play sets fast here?

Ultimate Bet
No Limit Holdem Ring game
Blinds: $0.50./$1.
6 players
Converter

Stack sizes:
UTG: $128.70
UTG+1: $148.55
Hero: $283.95
Button: $99.50
SB: $86.90
BB: $99

Pre-flop: (6 players) Hero is CO with A:heart: Q:heart:
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, Hero raises to $4.5, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds.

Flop: 3:diamond: 5:heart: A:spade: ($14.5, 3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $10, SB folds, BB raises to $40, Hero calls
11-11-2006, 07:56 AM
Robert

benny,

I would call the flop and reevaluate turn - probably call a push on the turn. I need a read to lay this one down I think. If checked to on turn check behind and call a river push. If checked to again on the river push yourself (unless the board is bad for you).
11-11-2006, 08:47 AM
thnwkd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

benny,

I would call the flop and reevaluate turn - probably call a push on the turn. I need a read to lay this one down I think. If checked to on turn check behind and call a river push. If checked to again on the river push yourself (unless the board is bad for you).

given his stack i think this is a push/fold. given read i vote push.
11-11-2006, 10:43 AM
Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by thnwkd

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

benny,

I would call the flop and reevaluate turn - probably call a push on the turn. I need a read to lay this one down I think. If checked to on turn check behind and call a river push. If checked to again on the river push yourself (unless the board is bad for you).

given his stack i think this is a push/fold. given read i vote push.

I disagree. After calling pot is ~$90 and villian will have ~$55 left. Give him the chance to push the turn/river with a worse hand. Lots of people, even bad players, are cabable of folding a weaker ace after getting their c/r pushed over on the flop.
11-11-2006, 11:44 AM
Memeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

benny,

I would call the flop and reevaluate turn - probably call a push on the turn. I need a read to lay this one down I think. If checked to on turn check behind and call a river push. If checked to again on the river push yourself (unless the board is bad for you).

There is no need to re-evaluate on the turn, make your decision on the flop. Villain is not deep enough to be taking the hand to any other streets.

If you plan to call the raise, you believe your hand is the best, then you should re-raise and set Villain all in. If you call you are only opening up more hands that can be dominating you.

The other alternative is to give Villain credit for set/or Ax (Two pair) and fold. Again though, there is no need to re-evaluation the turn.

On a further post you mention even bad players are capable of folding a weaker ace. This is true to a a degree, but the pot is big enough for 50/1 to be setting your opponent all in.
11-11-2006, 01:19 PM
Robert

I understand what you are saying. Basicly what I meant in my original post was also that I was going to felt this no matter what the turn card. I just dont see a reason why we absolutely have to push the flop? This is a WA/WB scenario - give villian a chance to something stupid (make a mistake) in a big pot OOP on later streets.
11-11-2006, 01:20 PM
elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

benny,

I would call the flop and reevaluate turn - probably call a push on the turn. I need a read to lay this one down I think. If checked to on turn check behind and call a river push. If checked to again on the river push yourself (unless the board is bad for you).

There is no need to re-evaluate on the turn, make your decision on the flop. Villain is not deep enough to be taking the hand to any other streets.

If you plan to call the raise, you believe your hand is the best, then you should re-raise and set Villain all in. If you call you are only opening up more hands that can be dominating you.

The other alternative is to give Villain credit for set/or Ax (Two pair) and fold. Again though, there is no need to re-evaluation the turn.

On a further post you mention even bad players are capable of folding a weaker ace. This is true to a a degree, but the pot is big enough for 50/1 to be setting your opponent all in.

I agree. I think this is a pretty easy flop fold IMO and its not like it was only a minraise. You don't even have the best kicker to go with that ace.
11-11-2006, 01:31 PM
Memeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

I understand what you are saying. Basicly what I meant in my original post was also that I was going to felt this no matter what the turn card. I just dont see a reason why we absolutely have to push the flop? This is a WA/WB scenario - give villian a chance to something stupid (make a mistake) in a big pot OOP on later streets.

You are also assuming you are in front of Villain in this hand.

Im not in the habit of throwing my stack away on top pair, especially when im check-raised by OOP, unless Villain is a total donk.
11-11-2006, 01:37 PM
benny999

I tend to fold top pair to legit resistance, but this just didn't make sense to me. So it's not reasonable to think a set/2pr is the less likely hand I'm against?

Or just not reasonable to base a read on things like him posting OOP, and how most ppl have played sets against me in the past?

btw, I def agree with robert about calling vs pushing the flop...let a bluff or weaker hand keep making mistakes. but I also agree if I call the flop, I am playing for stacks.
11-11-2006, 01:40 PM
IowaSkinsFan

Quote:

Originally Posted by elipsesjeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by Memeon

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert

benny,

I would call the flop and reevaluate turn - probably call a push on the turn. I need a read to lay this one down I think. If checked to on turn check behind and call a river push. If checked to again on the river push yourself (unless the board is bad for you).

There is no need to re-evaluate on the turn, make your decision on the flop. Villain is not deep enough to be taking the hand to any other streets.

If you plan to call the raise, you believe your hand is the best, then you should re-raise and set Villain all in. If you call you are only opening up more hands that can be dominating you.

The other alternative is to give Villain credit for set/or Ax (Two pair) and fold. Again though, there is no need to re-evaluation the turn.

On a further post you mention even bad players are capable of folding a weaker ace. This is true to a a degree, but the pot is big enough for 50/1 to be setting your opponent all in.

I agree. I think this is a pretty easy flop fold IMO and its not like it was only a minraise. You don't even have the best kicker to go with that ace.

I'm sorry, easy fold. Nothing invested and no reads, jot it down and keep observing.
And Jeff, why don't you respond to my chat at Stars?
11-11-2006, 02:26 PM
theDEEPdish

given the circumstances i think that hes just some drunk guy thats watched too much wsop and wants to win every hand I call. results?
11-11-2006, 02:34 PM
benny999

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDEEPdish

given the circumstances i think that hes just some drunk guy thats watched too much wsop and wants to win every hand I call. results?

Ha, we have a winner. the turn was an 8. He led for $25 with only a little bit left, I insta-pushed, he thought a few seconds then called and showed K8s.

I see this huge flop check/raise on dry boards every once in a while, and it seems like it's a bluff or donkish one pair a lot, but sometimes a slow played AA, or something like that.
I guess it's not the best idea to call, but I get the "have to see if I'm right" thing going in my head a lot.
11-11-2006, 03:13 PM
Robert

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

Quote:

Originally Posted by theDEEPdish

given the circumstances i think that hes just some drunk guy thats watched too much wsop and wants to win every hand I call. results?

Ha, we have a winner. the turn was an 8. He led for $25 with only a little bit left, I insta-pushed, he thought a few seconds then called and showed K8s.

I see this huge flop check/raise on dry boards every once in a while, and it seems like it's a bluff or donkish one pair a lot, but sometimes a slow played AA, or something like that.
I guess it's not the best idea to call, but I get the "have to see if I'm right" thing going in my head a lot.

You played the hand perfectly imo.
11-11-2006, 03:20 PM
Robert

I normally dont felt toppair on the flop either, but given the flop and the average donk at NL100 I felt this one. This can easily change with any sort of read of course.

Note: even though I want to felt this hand, I think felting and folding is close, so its not that folding to the flop c/r is a big mistake.