Timing tells

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11-05-2006, 06:28 PM
Sheetah

Timing tells

Recently I've been paying a lot more attention to timing and deciphering it's meaning. First of all, one can make a big mistake by taking it for granted: just because someone took a long time to act, doesn't mean he's weak or something - he might be busy at other tables, telephone just rang, connection problems, etc. You can only really be sure that quick action means he acted quickly. There is one more mistake, I used to be making: even if you correctly put someone on hand, say you call PFR w/ 55, flop comes 772 and you are 99.99% sure he doesn't have a 7, DON'T try to bluff him if he is bad and will stack off with overpair.

In other words knowing the player and betting patterns are far more important. This is just a little extra info.

Here are the ones I found to be relatively reliable, having in mind all above mentioned:

1) one-second-to-call = SLOWPLAYING : ex. you raise preflop OOP, got a caller, cbet and he takes a second then calls. This is really hard to define precisely, but I noticed it more than a couple of times. It is the length of his pause that is important. You get a feeling that he just took a deep breath and acted. It takes roughly about 1 second - no more, no less.

2) one-second-to-call-preflop = BIG HAND : same thing as 1) only he took the same 1 second before calling your preflop raise. This often means he has a big hand himself and was just about to raise when you did it. If you have AA and he one-second-to-calls your PFR and one-second-to-calls your cbet on a ragged flop, don't worry about slowplaying. Chances are he has a big PP and you've got him by the balls.

3) ThinkThank-Turn-MinRaise = MONSTER : you've all seen this, I'm sure. You bet, villain thinks (acts) about 2 or 3 seconds then minraises - he has a monster and is trying to extract the most without scaring you.

4) InstaCbet-into-rags = MISSED FLOP ie OVERS : I'm always suspicious when someone insta-cbets into non-ace/non-broadway flop. Often I found it to be missed flop, but BE WARNED: if the flop contains draws it is quite possible that the villain has AA and is afraid of being outdrawn so he bets quickly and is ready to go to war on flop. This one is actually not that reliable, so floating on brick turn is probably safer strategy.

5) Thinking-calling = HE'S SCARED: It's often said: "when they are thinking, they are thinking about folding". Note the difference between this and 1) one-second-to-call. In first case we had 1 second before acting and in this case we have more, usually 3 sec or more. Here's example from the hand I played: I PFR w/ AQo and got one caller (weak tight), flop: 992, I cbet 2/3 (standard) he thinks ... and calls (now I have a lots of information: he has a PP, doesn't really believe that flop helped me AND he is SCARED, that's why he took 4, 5 seconds to call), turn: 2, I fire second barrel 3/4 pot, he thinks ... thinks ... and folds. He WAS scared. It is this slightly longer pause that I rely on when deciding whether to 2nd-barrel or not.

6) I found this one in Rizen's blog:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizen

A lot of players, when they bluff river scare cards, will insta-push all in without hesitation. I've caught lots of people bluffing this way, and against a lot of players it's pretty reliable.

So did I just an hour ago :D. Thank you Rizen for valuable insight.

7) NOT EVERYBODY IS THE SAME. I must stress it again: knowing the player and betting patterns are of utmost importance. If you notice that particular villain takes n seconds when on a draw then adjust accordingly.

Finally, this is meant to be used against bad players. Good ones are quite capable of misguiding you into wrong conclusions.

Thoughts?
Your own insights?
11-05-2006, 06:41 PM
norny21

i just realized something thats almost exactly how long i take in those situations (except the min raise i almost always raise to at least 3x the bet) im going to change my timing now and take at least 5 secs before acting at all
11-05-2006, 07:36 PM
benny999

cool post thanks.

one of the most reliable I've seen is the insta min raise on the flop. usually a weak hand or total bluff, especially if I've been cbetting.
One time andy-akb insta raised my cbet at pokeroom, and I was pretty sure he was bluffing but couldnt pull the trigger on rebluffing. I think he said he was...
11-05-2006, 08:04 PM
bigslikk

The only simple info that I know is that if you wait a while before checking or betting, it seems like you might have something nice. Otherwise:

quick check: nothing
quick call: draw
quick bet: bluff

this is how Joe Poker interprets timing, IMO. I like to quickly bet when I have a monster, and also do a lot of "thinking" with air. It deceives opponents quite well
11-05-2006, 09:10 PM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

cool post thanks.

one of the most reliable I've seen is the insta min raise on the flop. usually a weak hand or total bluff, especially if I've been cbetting.
One time andy-akb insta raised my cbet at pokeroom, and I was pretty sure he was bluffing but couldnt pull the trigger on rebluffing. I think he said he was...

Never said I was bluffing, I said after I made it I figured you would think that. But yea, there are definitely timing tells; however, while there are general trends, they are still player specific. Incorporating timing tells into my game is something Ive been working on a lot recently and as you go higher in stakes you also need to look into your own timing tells. When I first started playing Id like count to maybe 3 seconds or something and then make my action and sometimes I still do that. Now I try to just randomize them instead of making them one set length.

Also, to norny who said he was going to take at least 5 seconds before acting at all. Please do not sit at my tables and slow the games down that much.
11-05-2006, 10:42 PM
benny999

wow so u remember that. so maybe it was good I didn't try to rebluff in that hand. but good thing 3rd level sort of stuff isn't the norm at 100nl, haha..
11-06-2006, 12:56 AM
andy-akb

Quote:

Originally Posted by benny999

wow so u remember that. so maybe it was good I didn't try to rebluff in that hand. but good thing 3rd level sort of stuff isn't the norm at 100nl, haha..

Haha yes I remember that, I think you were at like 3 or 4 [maybe more] out of my 8 tables. And yea, Im glad I dont face people consistently who actually know whats going on. At Fulltilt right now [where my "home" is] I see tons of regulars even at the 100nl level, but most of them really arent that great. They think they are lags or tags but dont know how to play reraised pots. So when Im running at 23/20/4 [my "standard" stats] they cant handle it and play back in horrible spots.

Yeaaaaa, looking at this topic i dont really know what Im saying, but lets try to tie this back into something that is related to this. Timing tells are important, and while there are very general tells that apply in a lot of situations, you need to work on picking up specific tells. Beyond that, you also need to consider what tells you could be giving off.